Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requirement in RFC 5321
Arnt Gulbrandsen <arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no> Mon, 28 September 2020 15:16 UTC
Return-Path: <arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no>
X-Original-To: ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 672BC3A0F95
for <ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 28 Sep 2020 08:16:37 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.097
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5
tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1,
DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001,
SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key)
header.d=gulbrandsen.priv.no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44])
by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
with ESMTP id 0lW9RPMxDR2Q for <ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com>;
Mon, 28 Sep 2020 08:16:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no (stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no
[144.76.73.169])
(using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits))
(No client certificate requested)
by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 248DC3A0F94
for <ietf-smtp@ietf.org>; Mon, 28 Sep 2020 08:16:35 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no (stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no
[IPv6:2a01:4f8:191:91a8::3])
by stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61591C0022;
Mon, 28 Sep 2020 16:22:44 +0100 (IST)
Authentication-Results: stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no;
dmarc=none (p=none dis=none)
header.from=gulbrandsen.priv.no
Authentication-Results: stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no;
spf=none smtp.mailfrom=arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gulbrandsen.priv.no;
s=mail; t=1601306564;
bh=QPO9h/XSwj2kECvMSaU0YfIn4Qbl2tWYlX+P40f/N8s=;
h=From:To:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From;
b=E78UH1o5O6Aje8NYEsHJD6bJsWnHTtIRVyk06HQkPhTPeNUKQqgpz4jg36qtIsJiL
/xHCO8lMEeYh0cXcqhn65CW0+PE5vaQ0NPmi9m/XYwad0zhvdiIpSBUwVdW6J9Evd/
tVBiBfyO9FJBkr3zuJNkj/yAtxqWo5Sy9Seh28BE=
Received: from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no by stabil.gulbrandsen.priv.no
(Archiveopteryx 3.2.0) with esmtpsa id 1601306563-19142-19140/9/235;
Mon, 28 Sep 2020 15:22:43 +0000
From: Arnt Gulbrandsen <arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no>
To: ietf-smtp@ietf.org
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 17:26:03 +0200
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <84e096f5-f02f-466d-8a5f-6750e6c4f129@gulbrandsen.priv.no>
In-Reply-To: <20200928142758.E9FE5229F6DE@ary.qy>
References: <cone.1601250950.437858.35945.1004@monster.email-scan.com>
<ac132a1a-ec83-1ec6-dd34-85fd3bba95c5@network-heretics.com>
<cone.1601252021.530626.35945.1004@monster.email-scan.com>
<6330c607-5ede-4766-1823-5c8be8a9097b@network-heretics.com>
<s1Gob6BEOTcfFAg3@highwayman.com>
<3b1279c2-ce25-2c74-cfe4-89fe31075c06@network-heretics.com>
<cone.1601257917.859397.35945.1004@monster.email-scan.com>
<e37088fc-ccad-1a4b-7216-a7c11a365e0b@network-heretics.com>
<399AEACC-81F0-4355-AB98-74896A772147@wordtothewise.com>
<7df1611b-e664-131d-376d-1cab87ad6409@network-heretics.com>
<F2BFE794-A258-4617-93BC-56ECE582CCE7@wordtothewise.com>
<aff3fde6-f120-1fb7-f8fb-eec8e16ac86e@network-heretics.com>
<FB243215-59BA-424F-9E31-2954561E22E8@wordtothewise.com>
<acc2e690-dff0-02c3-33f3-780d071df695@network-heretics.com>
<0EB43DCF-727B-496E-A92E-DE2BC685E026@wordtothewise.com>
<20200928142758.E9FE5229F6DE@ary.qy>
User-Agent: Trojita/0.7; Qt/5.11.3; xcb; Linux; Devuan GNU/Linux 3 (beowulf)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-smtp/LXZWBB-66HjC_asPywKqgF8zTRI>
Subject: Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requirement in RFC 5321
X-BeenThere: ietf-smtp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion of issues related to Simple Mail Transfer Protocol
\(SMTP\) \[RFC 821, RFC 2821, RFC 5321\]" <ietf-smtp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf-smtp>,
<mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf-smtp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-smtp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-smtp>,
<mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 15:16:37 -0000
On Monday 28 September 2020 16:27:58 CEST, John Levine wrote: > Keith is asking us to expect that mail clients will move behind NAT64 > even while their associated servers do not, and that will happen > enough that it will change a strong spam filtering signal. Doesn't > seem likely to me. For that to happen, someone has to say "well, I think that I'll change my mail server configuration to be more like a spammer" and then a million more people have to do the same, eventually weakening the spam signal. I fail to see why the first few thousand people would do any such thing. It's a case where we can't get there from here, so debating whether "there" is a good place or not has no connection to reality. Please let's stop this now. Arnt
- [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requirement in… Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John C Klensin
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Russ Allbery
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John C Klensin
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Claus Assmann
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Richard Clayton
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Laura Atkins
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Laura Atkins
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Laura Atkins
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Laura Atkins
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Arnt Gulbrandsen
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Mark Andrews
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Mark Andrews
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Arnt Gulbrandsen
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Richard Clayton
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Richard Clayton
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … Claus Assmann
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … Claus Assmann
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … Claus Assmann
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … Arnt Gulbrandsen
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … Evert Mouw
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … Claus Assmann
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … Laura Atkins
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … Sam Varshavchik