Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requirement in RFC 5321

Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com> Sun, 04 October 2020 09:49 UTC

Return-Path: <moore@network-heretics.com>
X-Original-To: ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 807993A1373 for <ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Oct 2020 02:49:34 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.111
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.111 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.213, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0zZHA4qLpNPP for <ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Oct 2020 02:49:33 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from wout5-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout5-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E873F3A1372 for <ietf-smtp@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Oct 2020 02:49:32 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id E005E329 for <ietf-smtp@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Oct 2020 05:49:31 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 04 Oct 2020 05:49:32 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=DI4orS yPPxQkaQt6bQKa1rjCzphgtc/ei7bPTgMoKEE=; b=LuaO4Q+FfJP9iN5/C/wQwB 6CfAFF44veegNhiRevOkeccdh5ZSZfiI+08SS3LUc7et8A9wECQd44R4qb9rVTWG iiQ2x97+6EhzRzVqjpENIsWnHlbvB1Hm1hiAGv6VwQiC397cW/ntn4DkX/PSdmMq r8IF2HF+EvvEWZZzA+IwZuwi6bubtt3s8YXWRDMeX5uElwyTeCZEdYUzZWFmLzLW i4M5UDZudxJ6fkzHFXciW92w/y2bDLNb+tCXKTRRvvsBVAaX0u5/+8QQ14nT0Lik 5i0EhjvPrsIwnNTvZPcnmASaGS/YEjEJcXGUXfaPyKAQLNTdfgtc7zrGXOhnubfA ==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:qpp5Xwm8onycnxAwmI9R-6LRbvkV_xhoyxUpsApIChF0j2KyJaOl6Q> <xme:qpp5X_1BfLRmXLScUppnDMQBAlUWWZ6ciSrls8OMbWWbHZxnN0EDydPeAg3ifgiIl nj3sEFgmU1zPw>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedujedrgedtgddvudcutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepuffvfhfhkffffgggjggtsegrtderre dtfeejnecuhfhrohhmpefmvghithhhucfoohhorhgvuceomhhoohhrvgesnhgvthifohhr khdqhhgvrhgvthhitghsrdgtohhmqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeevfeetudeigedtle dvvddtudefjeejffdvfeetjeeiueelgfdtgfegtdffkeetudenucfkphepuddtkedrvddv uddrudektddrudehnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilh hfrhhomhepmhhoohhrvgesnhgvthifohhrkhdqhhgvrhgvthhitghsrdgtohhm
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:qpp5X-q-za4KKbb_oAGf7Hmzwecg8UHd1sShrJPFuaVUUDrf1qIPcw> <xmx:qpp5X8nxu3clSPFoJuldBw9egiwT0FhPoqNcRBnIuc3cBy1OLbHz7Q> <xmx:qpp5X-1M0EUAoEyxRcelmg0mbPkQ4rW9_kwwXFf5X8YVwZYSq9WHcQ> <xmx:q5p5Xx1Q7bqVzq-h3ziw0Af53lKjCo8mjATL2Yh8eCvUt2oq2iADog>
Received: from [192.168.1.85] (108-221-180-15.lightspeed.knvltn.sbcglobal.net [108.221.180.15]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 97587328005D for <ietf-smtp@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Oct 2020 05:49:30 -0400 (EDT)
To: ietf-smtp@ietf.org
References: <20200928221602.046CE22A35B3@ary.qy> <ADA8052C-2B7D-4C50-8FFF-A3D88EC3BA58@isc.org> <ab8886ec-79b1-a89c-da38-dfe5a6e681@taugh.com>
From: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
Message-ID: <a692482a-7777-5743-0820-894dbe7314b0@network-heretics.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2020 05:49:29 -0400
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <ab8886ec-79b1-a89c-da38-dfe5a6e681@taugh.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------0616CAC12A0F288D92FEF505"
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-smtp/YQci2eYyRHYghNY6hPXFIT19Tgw>
Subject: Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requirement in RFC 5321
X-BeenThere: ietf-smtp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion of issues related to Simple Mail Transfer Protocol \(SMTP\) \[RFC 821, RFC 2821, RFC 5321\]" <ietf-smtp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf-smtp>, <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf-smtp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-smtp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-smtp>, <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2020 09:49:35 -0000

On 9/28/20 7:35 PM, John R Levine wrote:

>> Actually I expect there will be systems where just 25/<ipv4-address> is
>> statically NAT46’d to a 25/<IPv6-address> and all the outbound 
>> traffic goes
>> back through the NAT64 with no linkage to the IPv4 address except for 
>> those
>> established by the inbound connections.
>
> Hmmn.  I suppose that if I wanted to set up a mail system to maximize 
> the chance that my mail would fall afoul of well established 
> anti-abuse metrics and get thrown on the floor, that'd be a good plan. 

Please cite these "well established anti-abuse metrics" because they 
should not be accepted as valid without question.

If you refuse to do so, it should be assumed that they are either not 
well established or that they are not valid.   Or perhaps, they are 
themselves a form of abuse.

Keith