Re: [ietf-smtp] CC'ing ticket systems

Tony Finch <dot@dotat.at> Tue, 07 July 2020 16:56 UTC

Return-Path: <dot@dotat.at>
X-Original-To: ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACC243A0F0C for <ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 7 Jul 2020 09:56:04 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.896
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HYTg9tuFjQLp for <ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 7 Jul 2020 09:56:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ppsw-33.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw-33.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E7ED43A08D4 for <ietf-smtp@ietf.org>; Tue, 7 Jul 2020 09:56:01 -0700 (PDT)
X-Cam-AntiVirus: no malware found
X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://help.uis.cam.ac.uk/email-scanner-virus
Received: from grey.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.57.57]:60650) by ppsw-33.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.137]:25) with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) id 1jsqsq-000zeC-ir (Exim 4.94) (return-path <dot@dotat.at>); Tue, 07 Jul 2020 17:55:52 +0100
Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2020 17:55:52 +0100
From: Tony Finch <dot@dotat.at>
To: S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com>
cc: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, ietf-smtp@ietf.org
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20200707062121.11a2daf0@elandnews.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.2007071746190.21235@grey.csi.cam.ac.uk>
References: <16746.1594119340@localhost> <6.2.5.6.2.20200707062121.11a2daf0@elandnews.com>
User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-smtp/cDPHFXphmdfwO24dr2KYNZl1TcU>
Subject: Re: [ietf-smtp] CC'ing ticket systems
X-BeenThere: ietf-smtp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion of issues related to Simple Mail Transfer Protocol \(SMTP\) \[RFC 821, RFC 2821, RFC 5321\]" <ietf-smtp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf-smtp>, <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf-smtp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-smtp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-smtp>, <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2020 16:56:05 -0000

S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com> wrote:
> At 03:55 AM 07-07-2020, Michael Richardson wrote:
>
> > Damn, that was not what you wanted.
> > What one wanted was to open a ticket and then collect the whole conversation
> > into it.
> > [...]
> > There are a bunch of things that I can imagine that might solve this,
> > ranging from the mundane to the revolutionary.
> > But, I wondered if others think it important to think about ticket systems
> > and other automated email processes.
>
> Please see RFC 3834.  I used it to avoid email loops, e.g. a service responder
> responding to another one.

There's a bit more to this ticketing system problem than just the
auto-responses. (And auto-response suppression doesn't kick in if the
thread involves people CC:ing each other directly as well as a mailing
list and a ticketing system etc...)

As far as I can tell the problem is that most ticketing systems are
oblivious to threading, so they don't try to use In-Reply-To: or
References: headers to tie incoming messages to existing tickets.

There is the related problem that certain common mail software also
willfully fails to implement standard threading. So even if ticketing
systems were aware of threads they would still have to cope with other
mail software that breaks threads.

This should all have been solved in the 1990s, bah.

Tony.
-- 
f.anthony.n.finch  <dot@dotat.at>  http://dotat.at/
Viking, North Utsire, South Utsire, Northeast Forties: Northerly or
northwesterly 4 to 6. Moderate. Showers. Good, occasionally moderate.