Re: [ietf-smtp] SMTP, DSNs, and enhanced replies
Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com> Fri, 10 April 2020 02:37 UTC
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Cc: John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>, ietf-smtp@ietf.org, blong@google.com
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Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 19:26:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com>
In-reply-to: "Your message dated Thu, 09 Apr 2020 16:11:33 -0700"
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To: Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-smtp/mQH4PXP7ip-qCZivts7um60Nkmg>
Subject: Re: [ietf-smtp] SMTP, DSNs, and enhanced replies
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> On 4/9/2020 4:00 PM, John Levine wrote: > > My impression is that these days if you get a bounce it's usually a DSN. > Right. I thinking of the SMTP mechanism for a client's /requesting/ its > use, which as far as I has not gained widespread use. Widely supported, not widely enabled. THe main issue IME is success DSNs. The way the standard reads you have to support them or be noncompliant. i tell people security needs override that and to simply reject messages that request them for security reasons. Including the SUCCESS machenism was a mistake, but we were quite concerned about feature parity with X,400 at the time - yes, this is that old - and blowback wasn't on the radar. But perhaps the real reason is that none of the mechanism the extension provides have proven to be essential. Most applications for envelope ids and original recipient addresses have been implement with more reliable VERP schems instead, the ability to turn off DSNs completely has always been present, and control over return of content is (a) Less useful because message sizes aren't as relevant, (b) Something you don't want th sender to have control over because of phishing/viral content, and (c) Something you don't want people to be able to do for really large messages. Ned
- [ietf-smtp] SMTP, DSNs, and enhanced replies (was… John C Klensin
- Re: [ietf-smtp] SMTP, DSNs, and enhanced replies … Hector Santos
- Re: [ietf-smtp] SMTP, DSNs, and enhanced replies … Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] SMTP, DSNs, and enhanced replies … Brandon Long
- Re: [ietf-smtp] SMTP, DSNs, and enhanced replies … John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] SMTP, DSNs, and enhanced replies Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] SMTP, DSNs, and enhanced replies John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] SMTP, DSNs, and enhanced replies … Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] SMTP, DSNs, and enhanced replies Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] SMTP, DSNs, and enhanced replies Jeremy Harris
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Claus Assmann
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs John C Klensin
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Jeremy Harris
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs John C Klensin
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Scott Kitterman
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs John C Klensin
- [ietf-smtp] Variable HELO name, was DSNs Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Arnt Gulbrandsen
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Variable HELO name, was DSNs Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Variable HELO name, was DSNs John C Klensin
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs John C Klensin
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Valdis Kl ē tnieks
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Scott Kitterman
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Valdis Kl ē tnieks
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Laura Atkins
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [ietf-smtp] DSNs Sam Varshavchik