Re: [ietf-smtp] Proposed agenda for EMAILCORE BOF

Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com> Mon, 27 July 2020 13:05 UTC

Return-Path: <moore@network-heretics.com>
X-Original-To: ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 978853A1958 for <ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 06:05:58 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.919
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZaSVQynU3IHo for <ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 06:05:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.24]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B9E723A1871 for <ietf-smtp@ietf.org>; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 06:05:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 028BBB2A; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 09:05:55 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 27 Jul 2020 09:05:56 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=B0evcw5j7fzXRRvyb2nb+TzIZTYgeyznvwC4KrYiy MM=; b=Ue6//OtApUxinmW1Jm8l/zfjrHk91AahhsEEUT4Gm5bUMthMqhI2rVdtK 73lkjumrg2qzavduezXxoy0hTJKPxAfW7+S7V+0pbIbeJwZ0yh8SqANlNt6LDEV1 rR0Ryys1kXQPitCuOmvuz/N0RJhYqbzjDm5IkfZVmfL4qImFz7+XbAXOSDIqzJM8 KXhPOVxshjiJSRlN9YG4Pl9TOEhX/+OI1u/JjeHUFA4gXl5hpjtm+EWbL303t0yr d82JA+6Wtn72em5QPsNRAy39f/4ndXrPiMM74sb+YTzxbS9rj8ARBGHbZDZeQiyk WZbWF+Xhjq+yZey9pOSROUyMDOa1Q==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:M9EeXyFnSf7OjUnIj9xLtbIUzsiEc1HyfDqd2Qs2ifwlIqRAzJbETg>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduiedriedtgdeiudcutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpefuvfhfhffkffgfgggjtgfgsehtkeertddtfeejnecuhfhrohhmpefmvghithhh ucfoohhorhgvuceomhhoohhrvgesnhgvthifohhrkhdqhhgvrhgvthhitghsrdgtohhmqe enucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeehhfeutdehfefgfefghfekhefguefgieduueegjeekfeel leeuieffteefueduueenucfkphepuddtkedrvddvuddrudektddrudehnecuvehluhhsth gvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepmhhoohhrvgesnhgvthif ohhrkhdqhhgvrhgvthhitghsrdgtohhm
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:M9EeXzWrSjCIJ2BMlBq0Uha7kJ2Tqym5Z2sGMiXV0ZeCAQc0IXKTGg> <xmx:M9EeX8Lb2GeZcbsjqStCf4dCP6UgtsvW7b7zmlvGHnulzt4Rr2zYiA> <xmx:M9EeX8FJgSR_tuk53_HKv9488my-L27exZre0pPUbQ9xSMype_sYuA> <xmx:M9EeX5UvTdZj8z4JEhzlZNZ9lQNp4WjwBs1k23fOZcPk6OwNInZ9NQ>
Received: from [192.168.1.85] (108-221-180-15.lightspeed.knvltn.sbcglobal.net [108.221.180.15]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id EB84B3280066; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 09:05:54 -0400 (EDT)
To: John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>, ietf-smtp@ietf.org
References: <20200727122640.CCA031D8B222@ary.qy>
From: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
Message-ID: <8be29355-c511-7e0a-141e-94b4271a1e0e@network-heretics.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 09:05:54 -0400
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <20200727122640.CCA031D8B222@ary.qy>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-smtp/n9u-R1NToUHOB8v_AlDDsdBK0wg>
Subject: Re: [ietf-smtp] Proposed agenda for EMAILCORE BOF
X-BeenThere: ietf-smtp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion of issues related to Simple Mail Transfer Protocol \(SMTP\) \[RFC 821, RFC 2821, RFC 5321\]" <ietf-smtp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf-smtp>, <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf-smtp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-smtp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-smtp>, <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 13:05:59 -0000

On 7/27/20 8:26 AM, John Levine wrote:

>> The client is NOT expected to fail-over to STARTTLS on a different
>> port.   The whole point of establishing the connection in advance and
>> preferring Implicit TLS is to minimize the potential for downgrade attacks.
> We agree about that, but if that what 8314 is supposed to say, it's
> not saying it in a way I can recognize.

I see your point.

Keith