Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being associated to emailcore, should list name change?
John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> Wed, 22 July 2020 05:49 UTC
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Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 01:49:15 -0400
From: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
To: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>, ietf-smtp@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being associated to emailcore, should list name change?
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--On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 23:16 -0400 Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com> wrote: > On 7/21/20 9:08 PM, John C Klensin wrote: > >>> I think it's slightly deeper than that, which is that every >>> time one party adds a new header field, some number of other >>> parties decide that they can delete or modify that field, or >>> use it to validate or invalidate the message. So random >>> parties making random decisions about message headers are >>> detrimental to email reliability. >> I agree with that. But that is the justification for >> registered header field names, preferably well-documented and >> stable ones. > > I suspect this is not an issue that can be addressed by any > combination of registration and/or field-naming constraints in > the absence of instructions to message-handling software about > which fields (if any) they can add, modify, or delete. > > I love the format's extensibility but I suspect there's a > point of diminishing returns. The message header has > become a garbage dumping ground, and it might need some > cleaning up. Agreed. But also agree with Dave that it is difficult to imagine how cleaning up such a dump (even if there were consensus on that characterization) could be within scope for emailcore. It probably is in scope for this list [1] but I hope we don't need to separate emailcore to a separate list in order to get anything done there. ...Another decision I hope we can defer until after the BOF. john [1] Noting Dave's comments about people who choose to try to help a relative newcomer by examining possible cases and agreeing with him that, if this list were exclusively dedicated to emailcore work from the time the BOF proposal was announced, those efforts would probably be inappropriate.
- [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being associat… Michael Peddemors
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… John C Klensin
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… E Sam
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… John C Klensin
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… E Sam
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… John C Klensin
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… E Sam
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… John C Klensin
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… Jeremy Harris
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… Arnt Gulbrandsen
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… John C Klensin
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… Arnt Gulbrandsen
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… John C Klensin
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… Michael Peddemors
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… Dilyan Palauzov
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… Michael Richardson
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… Hector Santos
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… John C Klensin
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… Hector Santos
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious Brandon Long
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious Hector Santos
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious John C Klensin
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… Pete Resnick
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… Pete Resnick
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious Paul Smith
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… John C Klensin
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious John C Klensin
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… Pete Resnick
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious Michael Richardson
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious Kurt Andersen (b)
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… John C Klensin
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious Michael Richardson
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious Hector Santos
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious Hector Santos
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious John C Klensin
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… John C Klensin
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious Dilyan Palauzov
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious Pete Resnick
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious Michael Richardson
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious Pete Resnick
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious e sam
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious e sam
- Re: [ietf-smtp] broken signatures, was Curious Steve Atkins
- Re: [ietf-smtp] Curious, with this now being asso… John C Klensin