Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requirement in RFC 5321

Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net> Sun, 04 October 2020 18:35 UTC

Return-Path: <dhc@dcrocker.net>
X-Original-To: ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C70343A09AC for <ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Oct 2020 11:35:28 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.113
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.113 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.213, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WM2ZK8W0-l2Z for <ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 4 Oct 2020 11:35:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from simon.songbird.com (simon.songbird.com [72.52.113.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C5703A09A8 for <ietf-smtp@ietf.org>; Sun, 4 Oct 2020 11:35:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.0.109] (c-24-130-62-181.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [24.130.62.181]) (authenticated bits=0) by simon.songbird.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-4.1ubuntu1.1) with ESMTP id 094IcbcN010701 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Sun, 4 Oct 2020 11:38:37 -0700
Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net
To: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
References: <20200928221602.046CE22A35B3@ary.qy> <ADA8052C-2B7D-4C50-8FFF-A3D88EC3BA58@isc.org> <ab8886ec-79b1-a89c-da38-dfe5a6e681@taugh.com> <a692482a-7777-5743-0820-894dbe7314b0@network-heretics.com> <1c1856a5-ae46-48a0-84cd-66eafb543fa9@gulbrandsen.priv.no> <af67c913-c5fe-9410-3298-b38a208153c6@network-heretics.com> <42cd611c-2db5-53a1-8363-64a6d14e16de@dcrocker.net> <f6123ad6-c4cc-b4f4-83a5-53ebcf987c53@network-heretics.com>
Cc: ietf-smtp@ietf.org
From: Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net>
Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking
Message-ID: <3620f0c3-c765-ce55-4eaf-d096acf0e0e6@dcrocker.net>
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2020 11:35:20 -0700
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <f6123ad6-c4cc-b4f4-83a5-53ebcf987c53@network-heretics.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-smtp/w61J6l21225j0-RJM7rnbqjMUFc>
Subject: Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requirement in RFC 5321
X-BeenThere: ietf-smtp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion of issues related to Simple Mail Transfer Protocol \(SMTP\) \[RFC 821, RFC 2821, RFC 5321\]" <ietf-smtp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf-smtp>, <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf-smtp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-smtp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-smtp>, <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2020 18:35:29 -0000

On 10/4/2020 11:28 AM, Keith Moore wrote:
> On 10/4/20 2:19 PM, Dave Crocker wrote:
> It's easy to find documentation about how highways are engineered to 
> permit safe operation at certain speeds (slightly greater than statutory 
> speed limits), also taking into account road conditions, traffic volume, 
> etc.   The "expectation" you refer to is not merely an informal 
> convention, it's a result of explicit design.

Actually, it has little or nothing to do with road engineering. 
Objectively, in fact, anything over about 55 mph is extremely unsafe, 
given typical human reaction behaviors, at the list.

So this is primarily a matter of operating convention by the folk who 
police the roads.  Unwritten but highly reliable.  Except when it isn't.


> But I'm not your trained monkey, and I'm not bound to jump through 
> whatever arbitrary hoops you hold up,so you can Google that for 
> yourself.   I suspect that you don't actually care, you're just trying 
> to insult me again.

Keith, the above is pure ad hominem.  That violates IETF rules.

It would be nice to see those rules enforced.  The failure is also a 
matter of convention that violators rely on.  Quite successfully.


d/
-- 
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net