Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP / no bad reputation?
John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com> Mon, 12 October 2020 21:59 UTC
Return-Path: <johnl@taugh.com>
X-Original-To: ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 404913A0AA3 for <ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 14:59:46 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.1
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=QPp1WUaR; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=QGTLyjUS
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8s1hkv2VyuJx for <ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 14:59:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8448E3A0A9F for <ietf-smtp@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 14:59:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (qmail 26266 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2020 21:59:42 -0000
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type; s=6698.5f84d1ce.k2010; i=johnl-iecc.com@submit.iecc.com; bh=mhh+ddnRu9X6Qify+AkiGWj6gV++qy5I9YUWQaKuQDM=; b=QPp1WUaRaywdBBuV7YLWHzWhtDRjV3gr2oJ2aeyUNvgoKdKHZe4rIVz35NOGhgjW1V/wT3VNDbpMCuC75yElW7RGnjv0WWOAuHJbZcqPIwxnpPqMbX41bSSX2NGCX039HGwduPSUKFTN+7sVEkSjDLb9Ka3y7TIcf+OBTfBkSzvVRerZ3i5Lr7lxz6mxmOC9dir9Ih7Ht3Lrcru3JmYkOqAhd0wCK9RRzNEzdJwtcC2HpKJRmALm5Ue4LL+xE2hsJ47YsFvfGGu5EC4QnUWW760rIAtL8rP+fPI1XJOpb8bFyesylp+75mhoao9cex5VXplIt785tHE0l6idLeDSDw==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type; s=6698.5f84d1ce.k2010; olt=johnl-iecc.com@submit.iecc.com; bh=mhh+ddnRu9X6Qify+AkiGWj6gV++qy5I9YUWQaKuQDM=; b=QGTLyjUSYuLp+qBSDOA4vUQo1Ox2BWOS6Y0aUnTCp5Y8WpUossYSNWoiLvlsAOxXOQtajEnQLf2fqwYVQG9HBoVC0NaDtyulj9MjEIgSLMe5DFYBGfJCHc8swVKbYvo06fw0FNVmENL2aLz0WHwuQD4Q4keW/y3l1rWeYCpwdmb9FcXA29KMkS2EpYLhLDBZaBvQx95OwiR3Z0fuD99l//FWaCQgbcEt7mQZYh5EeN/qAvBjCJRO5aA7vFpR1KvkqKBAejbCVStFtKZTnDuiLB/B1yjAc65EXcvSfGJA8NW8b8NIEgmeBXAKYwxBxZ9ktK6zSS/6ztbzIdJP1mzp6Q==
Received: from localhost ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPSA (TLS1.3 ECDHE-RSA AES-256-GCM AEAD, johnl@iecc.com) via TCP6; 12 Oct 2020 21:59:42 -0000
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 17:59:42 -0400
Message-ID: <a49d9c76-2cbd-c126-d469-e7b27394ce1@taugh.com>
From: John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
To: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com>
Cc: ietf-smtp@ietf.org
In-Reply-To: <01RQQ33GYXOW005PTU@mauve.mrochek.com>
References: <01RQPKW2Y2E8005PTU@mauve.mrochek.com> <20201012184303.C3C2B234F9AF@ary.qy> <01RQQ0B48LT0005PTU@mauve.mrochek.com> <3d771644-efdf-7e69-9f1e-358196de08@taugh.com> <01RQQ33GYXOW005PTU@mauve.mrochek.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format="flowed"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-smtp/xxMtDOOW0oBOZLFAYP-D4zgwQtY>
Subject: Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP / no bad reputation?
X-BeenThere: ietf-smtp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion of issues related to Simple Mail Transfer Protocol \(SMTP\) \[RFC 821, RFC 2821, RFC 5321\]" <ietf-smtp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf-smtp>, <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf-smtp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-smtp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-smtp>, <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 21:59:46 -0000
> I don't think I've seen a block or rate limit for being new propogate to > other, established IPs in the range. But I have seen the time it takes > for a source to be considered "OK" increase. Yes, I've certainly seen that. > My problem here is that that you seem content with coming up with an excuse > for any blocking people do, no matter how capricious, no matter how > arbitrary. I'm not saying that what they're doing is great. But when I talk to large mail system operators at M3 meetings is is crystal clear that their main goal is to keep their users happy, and they absolutely Do Not Care about senders except insofar as their users are happy to get those senders' mail. One of the reasons your commercial senders have to deal with so many rules is that at the recipient end it is often hard to tell opt-in commercial mail from spam (indeed the exact same mail can be opt-in to someone who asked for it and spam to someone else on a purchased list.), In my experience the most of the people who receive commercial mail do not care whether they get it or not. The incentives are poorly aligned and I don't see any way to align them better that won't make things worse overall. > Left unchecked, the outcome will be that email becomes the sole province of a > handful of large MSP/ISPs. There is a very long tail, small senders stil figure out how to do the hoop jumping. Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
- [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requirement in… Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John C Klensin
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Russ Allbery
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John C Klensin
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Claus Assmann
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Richard Clayton
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Laura Atkins
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Laura Atkins
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Laura Atkins
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Laura Atkins
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Arnt Gulbrandsen
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Mark Andrews
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Mark Andrews
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Richard Clayton
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Arnt Gulbrandsen
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Richard Clayton
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Keith Moore
- Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requiremen… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … Claus Assmann
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … Claus Assmann
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … Claus Assmann
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … Arnt Gulbrandsen
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … John Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … Ned Freed
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … Dave Crocker
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … John R Levine
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … Evert Mouw
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … Sam Varshavchik
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … Claus Assmann
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … Laura Atkins
- Re: [ietf-smtp] own mail server: DNS / static IP … Sam Varshavchik