Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requirement in RFC 5321

Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com> Sun, 27 September 2020 16:39 UTC

Return-Path: <moore@network-heretics.com>
X-Original-To: ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C61DB3A093D for <ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 09:39:24 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.108
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.108 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.213, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8pBdzSmuOFRP for <ietf-smtp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 09:39:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.24]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 881EE3A0925 for <ietf-smtp@ietf.org>; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 09:39:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40EAE2D7; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 12:39:22 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 27 Sep 2020 12:39:22 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=tDmFL6 o3lQYFHPX0e8FobYxe4MS0LTifXc0b1O5QmLc=; b=K+MNcB4tzkVGMA1MR2wSVi DLVU4g+Kb2m8FUR/i0DPWuwaWb0uQd10Ya7iT1muxjcyzrXVlw+q21h2g7Hl8CV9 wNJI5lZisij0PjlY/lNuquHuKaAEgm6Gs4y2Fj6wuC8PMCdTQrvvrhRLyfNlaUzA bI9YDiTbNS+dwJpBhJOK7UoFBMPffSobgCNjrAIdh5lK0MW3CNuoIjl9Elu6YkxK 2svjqRvqS3/2kF2rk2MyB9FMuBZcp6raO4aZ6tFj3z6lk8/pn/A93YeJfgZJTE4i b5OtNjR6thrTlYjM+81N/MJNL2dyWJ9VqWWuATFo0RxATYwqWfX9l6XlvjkazB6A ==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:OcBwX5NZ2bHPAaRkefWfIxWPjwq5dd24219agd2ifzwiXC9aglpkrA> <xme:OcBwX79Rf1WJKd5g5ZDh9-LqQGu-bjVs4GYdMMaTKezQ4vUIZSd33BTNb5gBS99WE vSMe0FUy2sCdg>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedujedrvdeggddutdehucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefuvfhfhffkffgfgggjtgesrgdtre ertdefjeenucfhrhhomhepmfgvihhthhcuofhoohhrvgcuoehmohhorhgvsehnvghtfiho rhhkqdhhvghrvghtihgtshdrtghomheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepveefteduieegtd elvddvtddufeejjeffvdefteejieeulefgtdfggedtffektedunecukfhppedutdekrddv vddurddukedtrdduheenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrih hlfhhrohhmpehmohhorhgvsehnvghtfihorhhkqdhhvghrvghtihgtshdrtghomh
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:OcBwX4TAG8AfxkwL7o10MU8R_adBKDBZMmWOkdujmwG4n32Z3MAf-A> <xmx:OcBwX1v8WvHCLetLH9ftkIO7lnHbkgJz6Z1fMq30T7fIFcCj0ecT7w> <xmx:OcBwXxf5nkzkQ2a_uWWf91WTB0SGnEBGHIq8kBdSiOUZu8gi1tSqVw> <xmx:OcBwX7pDNrdE5r6-i8DnAuxbeU-iTmGj_xmdjrW174F0gJSnQfvVUg>
Received: from [192.168.1.85] (108-221-180-15.lightspeed.knvltn.sbcglobal.net [108.221.180.15]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 0B757328005D; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 12:39:20 -0400 (EDT)
To: dcrocker@bbiw.net
Cc: ietf-smtp@ietf.org
References: <20200927052221.E0A1A21D3A2D@ary.qy> <198daf90-b3dd-de01-88a0-e9d961feddda@network-heretics.com> <9ad77523-9c98-2249-d01c-80ecc6a96fa@taugh.com> <5e0239fb-9511-c8ae-e4a4-62b9caa2c861@network-heretics.com> <9ac2395f-bfe0-0c8b-00e1-b7c3db8298b9@dcrocker.net>
From: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
Message-ID: <56be90e5-4f32-9a51-4242-a73b331537ab@network-heretics.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2020 12:39:20 -0400
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <9ac2395f-bfe0-0c8b-00e1-b7c3db8298b9@dcrocker.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------32F585459C76520DADC71FE0"
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-smtp/yRkfqbiKrapUpnG1LSKFk66zvwY>
Subject: Re: [ietf-smtp] EHLO domain validation requirement in RFC 5321
X-BeenThere: ietf-smtp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion of issues related to Simple Mail Transfer Protocol \(SMTP\) \[RFC 821, RFC 2821, RFC 5321\]" <ietf-smtp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf-smtp>, <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf-smtp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-smtp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-smtp>, <mailto:ietf-smtp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2020 16:39:25 -0000

On 9/27/20 12:29 PM, Dave Crocker wrote:

>>
>> On 9/27/20 11:04 AM, John R Levine wrote:
>>
>> Anything that comes from a dynamic or NAT pool is invariably spam 
>> from a botnet.
>>
>> No, because nobody is looking that closely.   It's basically just 
>> prejudice that assumes that "legitimate" senders have static IP 
>> addresses, delegation of the corresponding zone in in-addr.arpa, and 
>> the knowledge to populate the PTR records.
>>
>
> John L. has been correctly summarizing what members of M3AAWG have 
> been quite consistent about, for many years.  It is part of the reason 
> that running a legitimate mail server on the open Internet, these 
> days, requires a significant amount of knowledge about the rather 
> elaborate set of expected configuration and procedure.

I find that very prejudiced notion of "legitimate" offensive. 
"legitimate" is legitimate content, nothing more or less.

Keith