IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: BCP 83 PR actions and new media

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Fri, 11 November 2022 01:33 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74D6FC1524B4 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 10 Nov 2022 17:33:03 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.109
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.109 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eI8qiCYysVvp for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 10 Nov 2022 17:33:01 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-pl1-x631.google.com (mail-pl1-x631.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::631]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 192CEC14CE47 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 10 Nov 2022 17:33:01 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-pl1-x631.google.com with SMTP id io19so3050300plb.8 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 10 Nov 2022 17:33:01 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=M5s4VR2fK2/HKByRtkLr6kk8LG2ewJdw7jrrrFE4BHw=; b=X9nUzkPtaUuJhAB1vJmdbqlRkVQS9Z82r3uHTjubWa6lwLBbj6msB448+TpWJon6NO 2gYtG5A5yopqSewD7T20ALzc2qDSRIVx0+FzJBJRmHH9sdiIdW/tpndKV57FofUTuSV6 TN8GOqTKLSoD6tZ037ssmgODvtaBC0aEDS8+UwUBp3FElWJE7TpW8NL+RKwAJjXA4Rbr LzEDOKYoQswiYfNgknY/Z1o6vWCnYpQrpEJr4zMX31aQYUynpZknHB97gavCdh3mU55P BSaK0C5/XCtEymVVpAOflVEX0Puj8kjom0cEcQXGXXT0QPvLK2W6w8RhdGPTm9i5se9a Nf7Q==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=M5s4VR2fK2/HKByRtkLr6kk8LG2ewJdw7jrrrFE4BHw=; b=Syrbv28NNUrV8PdXEqbTcjE9IkHVFFxA2W4P+Gux1uPc6j63WUardZVCsBOMkdHQbn QnxRp4FP5VCMwvbpZIIhFhSDzAuCSROf0rmpV3PJruQmlVUA0vXLwQkht44RmlU7NViH NW7xaMrrA/lX6+CS+Nvy+GQNWOunZoNqsSha2X0iLoHj0KNxQxmVcIIkVAoIovS6c+iQ DvwIXXYcVvyB9tINOKeLojEFrVp4CusEN3sXz/2Nw5UEkOSZ6k+fezvkoLH/UrTpbJRy fOjSkUHfv8d9T7GWuTr24WlN32bNXDpwrnRyxjnhqmvcltTpQ3qBcP9h2qs5hCSMBQxP Bbew==
X-Gm-Message-State: ANoB5pkpV5Jx6gHvqc6rNabXAXWfCuICY2PZ8knPwDj4WjzPAVgBHm3W K+8bWZscDLHVVGOmZjRaklRnvnBKFGwjRQ==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA0mqf5rcYP6FNOVJUbVtNDT0BbnLAaB6TlloS8xRsndcDIcP7a0MM4Fzs8WH3lEjR3/7Sd4/qOqjA==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:903:18c:b0:186:9fc5:6c2c with SMTP id z12-20020a170903018c00b001869fc56c2cmr144608plg.174.1668130380292; Thu, 10 Nov 2022 17:33:00 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?IPV6:2406:e003:1124:9301:672e:17ee:b374:8a9b? ([2406:e003:1124:9301:672e:17ee:b374:8a9b]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q64-20020a17090a17c600b0020d51aefb82sm441746pja.19.2022.11.10.17.32.58 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 10 Nov 2022 17:32:59 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <2b778472-251b-abfc-1c3a-c14d451ebf1c@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2022 14:32:55 +1300
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.10.0
Subject: Re: BCP 83 PR actions and new media
Content-Language: en-US
To: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>, ietf@ietf.org
References: <e9c50be7-3dcf-cdf5-005b-f46a0777b04a@w3.org> <6a4f347a-673e-5a2f-8864-5a26ff88e940@csail.mit.edu> <9D94F03D-2BF1-4034-B362-87063DEDA2E9@eggert.org> <971a6923-4819-4b1a-6923-7d9a5cf57d1c@gmail.com> <7441e2ee-8967-77fd-3f46-3bb2ecd62fc3@network-heretics.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <7441e2ee-8967-77fd-3f46-3bb2ecd62fc3@network-heretics.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/-AzcOy_vTjSZb1CHy-FSVRsDjrs>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IETF-Discussion. This is the most general IETF mailing list, intended for discussion of technical, procedural, operational, and other topics for which no dedicated mailing lists exist." <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2022 01:33:03 -0000

On 11-Nov-22 13:55, Keith Moore wrote:
> On 11/10/22 14:50, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> 
>> - I think that sticking our nose into *any* communication that does
>> not involve IETF services, resources or meetings is problematic. If a
>> person1@example.com sends objectionable mail to person2@example.edu,
>> it seems very tricky for any IETF intervention to occur.
> 
> What if such communications are done by people with appointed IETF
> positions?  I* members, WG chairs, list administrators, WG document
> authors, etc?

Yes, that is a very thorny question. The ethics get complicated.
Suppose an IETF "official" sends an email to somebody (from a non-IETF
address to a non-IETF address) saying "Private email: do not forward.
No hats: Your opinion is worthless and you are a waste of space."
Can the recipient use this in a complaint to the IESG or the Ombudsteam?

It would be quite different if they wrote "As WG Chair, I find that
your opinion is worthless and you are a waste of space." But trying
to draw that line seems quite difficult.

     Brian

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email