Re: "An open letter" signed by some IAB members

[Kathleen Moriarty <[e-mail]>]

On Tue, Nov 19, 2019 at 4:00 AM Mark Nottingham <[e-mail]> wrote:

> I suspect part of the issue here is that the letter is signed *only* by
> IAB members, not mixed with others - and so I agree that such a
> clarification would have been helpful.
>
> Question: Would people have felt such a clarification were necessary if it
> these names were mixed in with non-IAB (and non-IETF) names and
> affiliations?
>
> And, would people have had an issue if it were signed only by one person
> who used their affiliation (as a *member* of the IAB, not the whole)?
>
> To put it another way -- sometimes I give talks and mention that I'm a
> member of the IAB, and sometimes I omit other affiliations that I hold or
> have held (for example, it's rare that I need to trot out that I served as
> president of my local primary school for several years). Are people
> seriously suggesting that this is out of line?
>

For talks, you can say that, but you are also supposed to say that you are
speaking for yourself unless sanctioned to speak on behalf of the body.
It's usually on the cover slide.

Best regards,
Kathleen


> Cheers,
>
>
> > On 19 Nov 2019, at 4:48 pm, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet=
> [e-mail]> wrote:
> >
> > While I believe that anyone has the right to state his position at any
> organization, never mind is paid or not (unless a contractual clause
> disallows that), I think that when it is not an official position of that
> organization, it should be done stating clearly "that is a personal
> opinion".
> >
> > Something in the line of a footnote clearly indicating that this letter
> is not the "official position of the IAB" (for this specific case).
> >
> > Otherwise, tomorrow, a few of us can sign a similar letter showing below
> our names "Member, IETF", and who is reading it, probably will not
> recognize that we aren't "empowered" to sign as IETF, as we are just a
> bunch of participants, but not speaking from the IETF.
> >
> > And so, clearly agree with Barry here.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Jordi
> > @jordipalet
> >
> >
> >
> > El 19/11/19 14:42, "ietf en nombre de Barry Leiba" <
> [e-mail] en nombre de [e-mail]> escribió:
> >
> >    Perhaps some of you have seen that Ted Hardie posted an open letter on
> >    the Hong Kong high court’s injunction on Internet speech:
> >
> https://medium.com/@ted.ietf/an-open-letter-on-the-hong-kong-high-court-injunction-on-internet-speech-7f0048df2f54
> >    The letter is signed by Ted and is co-signed by three other IAB
> >    members, each signing as an individual: the letter is not from the IAB
> >    and doesn’t claim to be.
> >
> >    Nevertheless, note that all signatories identify themselves as
> >    “Member, Internet Architecture Board”, and three of the four do not
> >    list their company affiliations.  This has two effects:
> >
> >    1. By being signed by four IAB members who are identified primarily as
> >    IAB members, the letter *appears* to be from the IAB.  I have passed
> >    this by three non-IETF friends, asking them who they think the letter
> >    is from, and all three said, “The Internet Architecture Board.”
> >
> >    2. By using “Member, Internet Architecture Board” this way, those
> >    signing the letter are effectively (whether by intent or not) using
> >    their IAB positions to gain credibility for their personal opinions.
> >
> >    I think this is wildly inappropriate.  I think those of us in IETF
> >    leadership should be scrupulously careful NOT to call out our IETF
> >    affiliations this way unless we are speaking for the organization.
> >    The fact that the letter refers to things that have been published
> >    with IAB consensus doesn’t change the fact that the *letter* does not
> >    have IAB consensus, and we must be careful not to give the impression
> >    that it does.
> >
> >    I’ve discussed this with Ted, who thinks that there’s nothing wrong
> >    with how the letter was signed and posted.  That disturbs me.  I tried
> >    to let it go, but I’m sufficiently bothered by it that I felt the need
> >    to take it to the community.  This is that.  Ted tells me that all IAB
> >    members were invited to co-sign the letter, and that none brought up a
> >    concern about the use of the “Member, IAB” affiliation.
> >
> >    As you think about this and — I hope — discuss it, please keep this
> in mind:
> >
> >    - I’m NOT talking about the content of the message and whether I do or
> >    don’t agree with it.  That’s not the point.  I hope that as we discuss
> >    this we do NOT go into the content, the politics, and so on.  Let’s
> >    please keep this highly charged issue out of IETF discussions.
> >
> >    - I’m NOT looking to beat Ted up here; what I want is for this not to
> >    happen again, and I hope the ensuing discussion supports that.
> >
> >    --
> >    Barry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > **********************************************
> > IPv4 is over
> > Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> > http://www.theipv6company.com
> > The IPv6 Company
> >
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> >
>
> --
> Mark Nottingham   https://www.mnot.net/
>
>

-- 

Best regards,
Kathleen