Re: "why I quit writing internet standards"

Yoav Nir <ynir.ietf@gmail.com> Thu, 17 April 2014 20:25 UTC

Return-Path: <ynir.ietf@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 558BF1A00E6 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 17 Apr 2014 13:25:19 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zy8h9Dtl7uXi for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 17 Apr 2014 13:25:14 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-ee0-x22f.google.com (mail-ee0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4013:c00::22f]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BA961A0054 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 17 Apr 2014 13:25:14 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-ee0-f47.google.com with SMTP id b15so1025855eek.20 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 17 Apr 2014 13:25:10 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=OsSvoqW8LHa2AABj5kNTZQ2DALytEGeAlOZzuf+5OdM=; b=IsB4nA7QWt/JPjRSERx1qeUQ8io4QBTLre59xlov5zVkbHA4dWN1/9VrWWeEBG8iOX Abc1ThGnGZw9Uu2NH8/vo8iAhaAv+ggSmoZmYDriGkTAVECmpQxwXC32VYUJetiqj0EZ jJORdxfs/VXx6oow2LIWh+faP9YdcB4nSCKcomVdzHRzVYyj0AvTNJRVIP+/R4dih6xe KKT59Vluh9+mEhh/7l3ik3qsNQjfq8c7rC7FqzA3RHMfGGrKhuVSXXHj82AYMbhTWQ+E kRDPz18IUDlinV9QGh8p/xyi4l9TYb9IQe4FrLo7Wl4IYvwGg+XEJjwNpU5cwThLW1Zp LWqQ==
X-Received: by 10.15.82.132 with SMTP id a4mr16424191eez.47.1397766310377; Thu, 17 Apr 2014 13:25:10 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.101] (bzq-84-109-50-18.red.bezeqint.net. [84.109.50.18]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id p8sm70310082eef.26.2014.04.17.13.25.09 for <multiple recipients> (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 17 Apr 2014 13:25:09 -0700 (PDT)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.2 \(1874\))
Subject: Re: "why I quit writing internet standards"
From: Yoav Nir <ynir.ietf@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAKHUCzzzsTLmcnRkyCobkimg5z4bAiCfpnsTuZ+PBksTjRKsBg@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 23:25:07 +0300
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <F80E4CA0-4DE4-4F1B-8FA2-CAE6906C00DD@gmail.com>
References: <CF71721A.180A9%wesley.george@twcable.com> <201404142144.s3ELipR8014504@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> <C16CB48C-9462-4514-B675-D750D4DC9357@piuha.net> <534DB785.7040609@gmail.com> <EF72D31A-8134-42DB-B750-D5C3831869EE@tzi.org> <534DC46C.60703@gmail.com> <8962F23C-1486-4F52-AD58-BE64CFBC3B4A@thomasclausen.org> <CAKHUCzzzsTLmcnRkyCobkimg5z4bAiCfpnsTuZ+PBksTjRKsBg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Dave Cridland <dave@cridland.net>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1874)
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/0bzYYjZSKjjwWa-qGn02XgcXjds
Cc: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>, "ietf@ietf.org List" <ietf@ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 20:25:19 -0000

On Apr 17, 2014, at 5:26 PM, Dave Cridland <dave@cridland.net> wrote:

> 
> Instead of Experimental, maybe a state before the standards-track proper, called "Proposed Standard", might work, beyond which you'd need two interoperable implementations to demonstrate utility and functionality.
> 
> I appreciate it's a radical suggestion.

That’s not radical. Radical would be getting to this “proposed standard” of which you speak in a few months rather than a few years, and without achieving perfection or even Pete’s definition of rough consensus.

Yoav