Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for the IETF"
Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no> Tue, 02 June 2015 06:25 UTC
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Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2015 08:24:56 +0200
From: Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>
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To: ietf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for the IETF"
References: <20150601164359.29999.35343.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <CAL02cgRPFooA5fVFwvdprb3wPD+Y55pD+7RWjkACDv7T_TBW5Q@mail.gmail.com> <1472054.O9DP0qoCQf@gongo> <556CBCF5.3060402@alvestrand.no> <1C4D741C-89EA-4973-8536-D6A02EFD7624@syndicat.com>
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On 06/01/2015 11:18 PM, Niels Dettenbach (Syndicat.com) wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA256 > >> Encryption everywhere is good. > You mean Evers public information should be encrypted? I.e. Radio vor TV? Can't see the "feature", sorry... have you looked at your cable TV lately? Or your DAB radio? > >> Once a connection is encrypted and certificate-protectedhole class >> >> of worries can be removed from the threat models; having fewer things >> to >> worry about is great when designing protocol stacks. > This is correct by theory in many, but not all cases and not in practice. > > A https geht takes up to multiple times of energy and computing resources. I prefer efficiency even in protocols - resources should be user for real (not only theoretic) added value. See the Great Cannon attack. Allowing in-flight modification of resources (which using HTTP is) is not just a theoretical danger to yourself, it's a practical danger to anyone on the Net. But since you're not convinced by the language of the IESG note, me repeating it won't make you more convinced. Sorry 'bout that. > > Browser HTTP-SSL/TLS isn't "just encrypt and forget" as long as you really unterstand the whole infrastruture and setup in practice including their implications today - and not in theory only. This is not like and comparable with the migration from telnet to SSH and even not with SMTP TLS/SSL... It's more comparable with the transition from bang-path addresses to DNS notation, yes. > > And getting a faked x509 i.e. for mitm is more a question of some money and/or third party CA securitiy and not at first of secure crypto algos or similiar. > > And blocking plaintext http is no feature - it is at max a lack of... Not a part of this proposal. > > Sorry... > > > best regards, > > Niels. > - --- > Niels Dettenbach > Syndicat IT & Internet > http://www.syndicat.com > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > iQJZBAEBCABDPBxOaWVscyBEZXR0ZW5iYWNoIChTeW5kaWNhdCBJVCAmIEludGVy > bmV0KSA8bmRAc3luZGljYXQuY29tPgUCVWzMLwAKCRANu1qIRZIqRBm5D/43u9NJ > Ex2CxQwIXUcuPaPEr/2geCTgGgRBnUb46fzVwf5OlPnQqA+urr1EajpY3XRdWF5r > jmqnfS/ESYL4q3DV3CC8mW1a4uZWQX85+2fvCra8/nzyKP653jAZvSuqGZAnzGuq > ZDM33932y5GKcPLl86C7WG/QqZ7Yb6SPukTUnDY5z0DcbyBIgqAwF0D3N5P7dk49 > iaZY31z1F7rI1PvPS874sH4NVnSUh1N8OakRy5tCtQn4WVlaN1WBu+bzzCmsudgw > Oh7o/BWKFGzDTNGpfsyqmzcepHsmoAPcCtbrQOadX2HFxjqzB+NJwwSLSn9koQlH > xnDhDkx0avolGa3nciubPTSJkAp1wFXj9e0zeJX8dGTOjzyJTDrDxNnYkszTnSS/ > X0HnoDo3Uo638Ho9sAcweZJ3XNibNNn5ekdU9kd/rBAIHaWG1m4zshMglupJPyst > u0fvqBJi8AXznQ2Qv27CwjNWQSV37NFZcrkzg22f4GB43MJ1+utgTvEX2ft7uhrz > HJug38x8BH0vrLXpcvlKA2f6SaOCfIhCoqv4+SLVHQLE7IoG2ZxdoY4795ORGHFc > NsyfMB1ah52E3/pZjS1NhFhr4ndUQg5jp0eaLF5XhteRS2Zlw8wmYlP2qicpe3T2 > S4tO7+56PhnsZQhB8GnDZMnPN9HgD9KsMNEWGg== > =5dba > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Richard Barnes
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Bob Hinden
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Niels Dettenbach
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Nico Williams
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Niels Dettenbach (Syndicat.com)
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Niels Dettenbach (Syndicat.com)
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Paul Wouters
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Roland Dobbins
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Roland Dobbins
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Roland Dobbins
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Nico Williams
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Mark Baugher (mbaugher)
- Where are the places that block encrypted traffic? Sam Hartman
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… S Moonesamy
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… John Levine
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Masataka Ohta
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Eliot Lear
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Xiaoyin Liu
- Re: Where are the places that block encrypted tra… Patrik Fältström
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Eliot Lear
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Jari Arkko
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Roland Dobbins
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Niels Dettenbach (Syndicat.com)
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Niels Dettenbach
- Re: Where are the places that block encrypted tra… Niels Dettenbach
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Mark Nottingham
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Stewart Bryant
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Jari Arkko
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… l.wood
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Ted Lemon
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Joe Touch
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Ted Lemon
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Joe Touch
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Ted Lemon
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Joe Touch
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Richard Barnes
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Joe Touch
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Richard Barnes
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Joe Touch
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Richard Barnes
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Joe Touch
- Re: Where are the places that block encrypted tra… Mark Andrews
- Re: Where are the places that block encrypted tra… Sam Hartman
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Jari Arkko
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Xiaoyin Liu
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Stewart Bryant
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… t.p.
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… t.p.
- Re: Where are the places that block encrypted tra… Tim Bray
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Joe Touch
- Re: Where are the places that block encrypted tra… Warren Kumari
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Cullen Jennings (fluffy)
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Niels Dettenbach
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Stephen Farrell
- RE: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Tony Hain
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Cullen Jennings (fluffy)
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… John C Klensin
- RE: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Tony Hain
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… John C Klensin
- RE: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Tony Hain
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Yoav Nir
- RE: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Tony Hain
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Nico Williams
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Joe Hildebrand
- RE: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Christian Huitema
- RE: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Tony Hain
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Ted Lemon
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Ted Lemon
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Joe Touch
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Benson Schliesser
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Nico Williams
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Roy T. Fielding
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Niels Dettenbach
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Mark Nottingham
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… l.wood
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Hector Santos
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Xiaoyin Liu
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Hector Santos
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Hector Santos
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Roy T. Fielding
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Mark Nottingham
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Roy T. Fielding
- Re: Proposed Statement on "HTTPS everywhere for t… Stephen Farrell