RE: What is "The Internet community" ? Re: Want to be on the IESG?

Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net> Thu, 07 October 2021 21:07 UTC

Return-Path: <rbonica@juniper.net>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACBB93A0E88 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 7 Oct 2021 14:07:40 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.552
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.552 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.452, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net header.b=GchetXX/; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net header.b=JK79g+Un
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dwx9YvrpWhTO for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 7 Oct 2021 14:07:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com [67.231.152.164]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C661F3A0E83 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 7 Oct 2021 14:07:35 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0108160.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (8.16.1.2/8.16.1.2) with SMTP id 197IeXgx000994; Thu, 7 Oct 2021 14:07:21 -0700
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=PPS1017; bh=v+xRs1YSjR2dsALmZirmh9KOz/vYgROcUMlJxey1xbg=; b=GchetXX/GeOdMn1M4wdwNkn2M32iITHy6VmJDivJT//F0PLoOGn9bqT2pNAGoG1z/itt zvFcZwbsSuBjzESUbntrTmahG9AwY6/gugBZ3adu2eMZf4Dg/b4Ck0ruHIRypIyvlaWV R2B3bBg2oLToGG6ikXWrdLDOhzDO8H7aMMZLmTbK2VEN6KstLt8IwWY3Dir/HiKL67wd MUrlEvoaUTjPz804U4JkyhFs5cSQPPnGC+MY52qF7wRs3byihvFBeBDUf4II1kfLq6uH P3kmyxApAxxTpzIm2SYpc+/wsNhzgu5zCmxfbOtkVvDKUO6ws6YWm7U+PW2pKtARj1oo TQ==
Received: from nam10-bn7-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn7nam10lp2107.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.70.107]) by mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 3bj6ch0802-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 07 Oct 2021 14:07:20 -0700
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=BQg9ecIJ7jDvnAYxzrv6fn/LIaHblDVkWFLF2LAJz1P4rU3ZhOm4dTqo6FEOHdRdrsgamAXA3GnClJEb4NR0d5Cz4roGd+NueegII2GBBFxFEb22WANPThfdMhzPJu4zlXmbrb7qjDmOM0YINFo9z/tSuSyb2EQ0jqwpQa0oDAgOzMZ+tJi0oQLEZk2g8NM6MPsjNixTj00FvkRkMPczzRb5b/+kyDRb7QffeKAP2KKDSfx8usshghaKYMKvGAkaHnYUE0fmcbfCrfsm3FVdo1CJCiWUqomitXpvV7XCOScMc9y+OkAnxt6pe2+72RKJM8OKYOvlxfwwdaedKyYfJA==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=v+xRs1YSjR2dsALmZirmh9KOz/vYgROcUMlJxey1xbg=; b=V1UqlzDQyuB0uxsbZ2QIpJWhNWZCCp8mTXivtHCXP7UPhzcjhMO2uFi+aw4YJQeMiDwaQEbUhxeJtmwS1CwRxL+5unnXiMzGqQj0xTqzxg088mvj3Vk3f+kERqOIsjwTaYx42TWzFeRoQeykcoUeg5tCwTroXmK7LKi7mlpuPrMyI2ppHBgbQJ0w/cQQmMufMvIk9ZNqecdOKcJgzYOfkbKS1K2dlsdLk99ih8I0qZSFl7Oulu6NdxSw69uwIm5UP2qMRzeEqbvuFJSx0nmzpWatsvI5+qfJXxM333EZSnzypsoPnpD0qa9JNTYnpoU+SMzTvM7xHbBD2c4Mla6uZQ==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=juniper.net; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=juniper.net; dkim=pass header.d=juniper.net; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=v+xRs1YSjR2dsALmZirmh9KOz/vYgROcUMlJxey1xbg=; b=JK79g+UnrUXrTy9XWY8eB6HHQ/zY8NGqke5qaFNZKKKzKPjBJglVS8QvR22aOBwLommeID07OlmccFs7v0FOFjVIQPYxrI9+9JPchmIbLS2iEgh5JmGVZpKLXMNjGUgQNFsC/mF6MLkEAEZY6wsSP2EvIlhDNdnTvJMOkh2uibo=
Received: from BL0PR05MB5316.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:2f::25) by MN2PR05MB7023.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:18f::26) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4587.16; Thu, 7 Oct 2021 21:07:09 +0000
Received: from BL0PR05MB5316.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7459:5d69:f570:55f2]) by BL0PR05MB5316.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7459:5d69:f570:55f2%7]) with mapi id 15.20.4608.004; Thu, 7 Oct 2021 21:07:09 +0000
From: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>
To: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>, Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
CC: Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: What is "The Internet community" ? Re: Want to be on the IESG?
Thread-Topic: What is "The Internet community" ? Re: Want to be on the IESG?
Thread-Index: AQHXts80IgZb0X0JKkulxwbn/iKb5Ku+5B0AgANhQoCAAJhMAIAABnOAgAAYYACAABWdgIAABCyAgAIbtwCAARccAIABdy6ggAAbeACAAA+wgIAAAXVQgAAW/gCAAATuAIAAAxuAgAACVQCAAAIooA==
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2021 21:07:08 +0000
Message-ID: <BL0PR05MB5316F41BC472F87C07FFD4B5AEB19@BL0PR05MB5316.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <7a73471d-8591-a6d7-cacb-0a58b1ba070f@network-heretics.com> <F2914D95-A697-4EE4-9253-5C7C839DA05A@gmail.com> <BL0PR05MB53161CF80A7784E5B35B8F8DAEB19@BL0PR05MB5316.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <73eedea7-299a-df58-d690-af30380af743@huitema.net> <1df4a937-41f6-127f-0ac2-ad2c3356f6e1@network-heretics.com> <BL0PR05MB5316B5AD77A14776C6AD3EF3AEB19@BL0PR05MB5316.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <YV9WhgF3t4OWI5IX@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <72968cc1-cd1d-a40d-ed5a-ced0fb956b61@network-heretics.com> <YV9dQ9xMT5u18nZv@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <3947abe8-ea96-e2c8-1418-3c1de911b67c@network-heretics.com>
In-Reply-To: <3947abe8-ea96-e2c8-1418-3c1de911b67c@network-heretics.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
dlp-product: dlpe-windows
dlp-version: 11.6.100.41
dlp-reaction: no-action
msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=true; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SetDate=2021-10-07T21:07:07Z; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Method=Standard; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Name=0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SiteId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_ActionId=1a9f8f83-a036-4ee7-96b3-40c904ee22cc; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_ContentBits=2
authentication-results: network-heretics.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;network-heretics.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=juniper.net;
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 73becbaa-a675-4df3-3c6b-08d989d66d18
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MN2PR05MB7023:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <MN2PR05MB7023C67418333D4E4603563CAEB19@MN2PR05MB7023.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8882;
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:BL0PR05MB5316.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(366004)(2906002)(38100700002)(26005)(110136005)(4326008)(8936002)(122000001)(316002)(54906003)(55016002)(38070700005)(33656002)(5660300002)(508600001)(8676002)(83380400001)(66574015)(66446008)(52536014)(66556008)(66476007)(6506007)(66946007)(7696005)(64756008)(53546011)(186003)(9686003)(86362001)(71200400001)(76116006); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: 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
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BL0PR05MB5316.namprd05.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 73becbaa-a675-4df3-3c6b-08d989d66d18
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 07 Oct 2021 21:07:09.5237 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: x/11TbbE+OWHxToiOzwAaWJXP9kalz8wETabC3N6WHISI5H6oFEj/kd0Gb7gq84mQcaeA77gBGLLtt4PbiAERQ==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR05MB7023
X-Proofpoint-GUID: CMeYdgWJbT5-ZB8ZtqnP-21GzJkEbnYQ
X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: CMeYdgWJbT5-ZB8ZtqnP-21GzJkEbnYQ
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.182.1,Aquarius:18.0.790,Hydra:6.0.391,FMLib:17.0.607.475 definitions=2021-10-07_04,2021-10-07_02,2020-04-07_01
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1011 adultscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 suspectscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=989 priorityscore=1501 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2109230001 definitions=main-2110070134
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/2362Ul5t5uvxfThpLTS40bssUoM>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2021 21:07:41 -0000

Folks,

When I used the term "Internet Community", I was thinking of the *billions* of people who rely on the Internet for their well-being and the *billions* of people who have yet to be connected.

I wasn't thinking about limited domains at all.

                                                                              Ron


Juniper Business Use Only

-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com> 
Sent: Thursday, October 7, 2021 4:57 PM
To: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
Cc: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>; Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>; Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; ietf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: What is "The Internet community" ? Re: Want to be on the IESG?

[External Email. Be cautious of content]


On 10/7/21 4:49 PM, Toerless Eckert wrote:

> My point here was to distinguish the fact that the "Internet Protocol 
> Community" is more broader and diverse in its constituents, 
> requirments and constraints than the "Internet Community", which is only a key member.

I certainly agree.   I'd also assert that the boundary between the
"Internet Community" and the "Internet Protocol Community" (ecosystem?) is fuzzy.

But I've often heard the argument that we should limit the scope of our work to the full-time connected and/or public Internet, and I disagree
with that argument.   I think we need to accept that our work is widely
used outside of those environments.

Keith