Re: Is round-trip time no longer a concern?
Dave Crocker <dhc2@dcrocker.net> Mon, 20 February 2006 19:24 UTC
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Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:21:21 -0800
From: Dave Crocker <dhc2@dcrocker.net>
Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking
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Cc: IETF-Discussion <ietf@ietf.org>, iesg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Is round-trip time no longer a concern?
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Steve, > Dave, I tried to phrase my comment carefully. I wrote: 1. You succeeded. 2. For my own part, I had no doubt that your model of the world had something like the rules you listed. 3. My reason for citing your note was that the issue of expected usage environment is, I think, exactly what drives many people's design models and exactly what, I think, can be a strategic danger. In other words, I view this issue as specifically what should be discussed as an essentially architectural topic, looking for consensus, guidelines, or the like. > It's acceptable, to me, to make an *engineering tradeoff* about how a > protocol design is balanced, if there's a natural operational environment. > What's not acceptable is to design it so that it *only* runs in one > environment or the other. Over time, my experience has caused me to believe that protocols designed for the high vagaries of a WAN can usually be adapted to run well over a LAN. In considerable contrast, protocols designed for the high bandwidth and low latencies of a LAN are difficult or impossible to make work well over the vagaries of a WAN. So while I agree with your basic view of engineering tradeoffs, I think that the topic is filled with dragons. Worse, I believe that, as a community, we don't have much basis for considering the tradeoffs well. That is, as a community, I think we tend to lock ourselves into designing for only one expected environment and fail to incorporate your listed rules properly. Indeed, that is what prompted my starting this thread. I think concern for protocol chatter is not high enough (ie, not as high as it used to be.) d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking <http://bbiw.net> _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
- Re: Last Call: 'TLS User Mapping Extension' to Pr… Eric Rescorla
- Re: Last Call: 'TLS User Mapping Extension' to Pr… Steven M. Bellovin
- Re: Last Call: 'TLS User Mapping Extension' to Pr… Bill Fenner
- Re: Last Call: 'TLS User Mapping Extension' to Pr… Russ Housley
- Re: Last Call: 'TLS User Mapping Extension' to Pr… Russ Housley
- Is round-trip time no longer a concern? (was: Re:… Dave Crocker
- Re: Is round-trip time no longer a concern? Russ Allbery
- Re: Is round-trip time no longer a concern? (was:… Steven M. Bellovin
- Re: Last Call: 'TLS User Mapping Extension' to Pr… Bill Strahm
- Re: Is round-trip time no longer a concern? (was:… Dave Cridland
- Re: Is round-trip time no longer a concern? Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: Is round-trip time no longer a concern? Peter Dambier
- RE: Last Call: 'TLS User Mapping Extension' to Pr… Pasi.Eronen
- Re: Is round-trip time no longer a concern? Eric Rescorla
- Re: Is round-trip time no longer a concern? Keith Moore
- Re: Is round-trip time no longer a concern? Dave Cridland
- Re: Is round-trip time no longer a concern? Dave Crocker
- Re: Is round-trip time no longer a concern? Eric Rescorla
- Re: Is round-trip time no longer a concern? Tony Finch
- Re: Is round-trip time no longer a concern? Steven M. Bellovin
- Re: Is round-trip time no longer a concern? Dave Crocker
- RE: Last Call: 'TLS User Mapping Extension' to Pr… Gray, Eric
- RE: [TLS] Re: Last Call: 'TLS User Mapping Extens… Pasi.Eronen
- Re: Last Call: 'TLS User Mapping Extension' to Pr… Bernard Aboba
- RE: Last Call: 'TLS User Mapping Extension' to Pr… Russ Housley
- RE: [TLS] Re: Last Call: 'TLS User Mapping Extens… Russ Housley
- RE: [TLS] Re: Last Call: 'TLS User Mapping Extens… Stefan Santesson
- RE: Last Call: 'TLS User Mapping Extension' to Pr… Stefan Santesson
- RE: Last Call: 'TLS User Mapping Extension' to Pr… Stefan Santesson
- RE: Re: [TLS] Re: Last Call: 'TLS User Mapping Ex… Stefan Santesson
- RE: Re: [TLS] Re: Last Call: 'TLS User Mapping Ex… Stefan Santesson
- RE: Re: [TLS] Re: Last Call: 'TLS User Mapping Ex… Russ Housley
- Re: Last Call: 'TLS User Mapping Extension' to Pr… Simon Josefsson
- Re: Last Call: 'TLS User Mapping Extension' to Pr… Jeffrey Hutzelman
- RE: [TLS] Re: Last Call: 'TLS User Mapping Extens… Ari Medvinsky