Re: Change in IPR policies

"Scott O. Bradner" <> Tue, 09 June 2020 20:23 UTC

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Subject: Re: Change in IPR policies
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2020 16:23:38 -0400
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relative to John’s point #2

does this mean that the IETF will not be making the session recordings openly available? - there seems 
to be no reason for a distribution prohibition otherwise

(for example see - it list the audio & video recordings)

if so, that would, as John points out, would be a rather big change and I did not see any discussion
of any proposal to make such a change - can you point me to the archive of the discussion - thanks


> On Jun 9, 2020, at 3:50 PM, John C Klensin <> wrote:
> Hi.
> I was just reminded that, when I registered for IETF 108, I
> noticed that I was asked to agree to two things that seemed new.
> The first is probably unimportant but IANAL and it is still a
> change.  The second seems problematic.
> (1) If I recall (I was tired and might easily have been
> confused), the language about the Note Well statement has
> changed to require agreement to the statement itself, not just
> that it was read and understood.  If so, I hope the new language
> was cleared with counsel because I believe we were warned in the
> past that we should treat that statement simply as a collection
> of pointers, not an authority in itself.  That is the reason
> why, e.g., we reference specific RFCs or BCPs in I-Ds and RFC
> boilerplate rather than pointing to the Note Well.
> (2) There is a very specific and, as far as I know, completely
> new, prohibition against distribution or broadcasting of any
> meeting-related discussion or events.  That seems like a giant
> step away from the IETF's tradition of openness and free
> availability of materials.  It also may run counter to existing
> principles and rules, including the provisions about reuse of
> Contributions for IETF purposes that appear in BCP 78.  In
> addition to the general principle that we do not try to restrict
> access to, reuse of, or reproduction of, our materials (as long
> as they are reproduced intact), there are at least two
> interesting operational edge-case questions about what the
> requirement means.   As examples,
> (1) Suppose that, as part of a presentation, I read sections of
> an Internet-Draft that I wrote.  Now, normally, the content of
> an I-D is a Contribution to the IETF but one for which the
> author(s) etain full rights to reuse the content for other
> purposes.  By reading those sections aloud, do I forfeit the
> right to distribute and broadcast them?
> (2) Perhaps I read from a published RFC, for example RFCs 2026
> or 5378. Does that make it a requirement that whomever hears me
> read it must then ask the IETF's permission before quoting from
> it in a way that would constitute "distribution".
> (3) Suppose I record a session for my personal use and then
> discover what appears to be a discrepancy between what was said
> at the meeting.  Am I allowed to quote from my recording on the
> relevant mailing list to dispute the account in the minutes?
> Or, if there is a later decision made based in part of what was
> said at the meeting, am I allowed to include part of that
> recording in an appeal?
> Those examples are (I hope) silly individually, but they are
> consistent with the "no distribution or broadcasting" provision.
> As important and in the context of other recent discussions, who
> approved that restriction?  Were the Trustees of the IETF Trust
> and their legal advisors involved and, if not, why not?  If they
> were, should we expect a discussion in their April or May 2020
> minutes (which are now significantly late)?
> And, because it appears to be a very significant change from
> IETF principles and history, when was the community consulted
> about this and where is its consensus documented?    I hope no
> one is going to claim that it was necessary on an emergency
> basis to protect the revenue stream from registrations because
> that claim could have been made at any time in the past (and I
> can't be the only one who has recorded all or part of IETF
> meeting WG or Plenary sessions and then shared them).
> best,
>   john