The problem we could solve (re github etc.)
Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com> Wed, 09 June 2021 20:06 UTC
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From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2021 16:05:49 -0400
Message-ID: <CAMm+Lwhs0C80K2B4MoKi1ijghE2o6tmF7E8QreCK62P1bc9Q5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: The problem we could solve (re github etc.)
To: John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Cc: IETF Discussion Mailing List <ietf@ietf.org>
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So we endlessly discuss problems we don't actually have much influence on. Hope about authentication and authorization. Aren't we supposed to know something about those? Two IoT experiences today 1) Connecting to Ring doorbell on my phone 1) Cannot log into the App, because it thinks my password might have been compromised. My doorbell sits outside my trusted perimeter and thus has the same password as every other asset that I do not care about because it isn't me who suffers the loss. 2) App directs me to reset password, sends a challenge message to my email. 3) I can't respond to the email because I don't have my email access on the phone at the moment. So put the task off until I am at my desktop. 4) Log into Ring Web site, get fresh challenge, 5) Respond in my Gmail account 6) Try to log in to the Ring Web site, can't because I need a verification code that can only come from a device running the app. 7) Give up because it is just too much hassle. Second experience, Log into my Nest account on the Web, get bounced to Google accounts to log in. Can now view the status of my thermostat but not the status of my doorbell because the whole point here is making people dependent on subscription services. Back in the Watson days, the IBM motto was 'Think!'. What seems to pass the designers of these systems by is that absolutely the only reason to buy IoT stuff is to make one's life easier. The Nest devices are going to have to go because my wife is close to 'the Nest goes or I go' mode. Looking at the Ring situation from a security point of view, it is of course utterly absurd that they are relying on my gmail account to secure their service but require four separate interactions just for one log in. So compromise of the gmail account would utterly dominate anything they are attempting to do but... Lets face it, passwords aren't working and OAUTH is not the solution and adding it into the mix most often just makes things worse. Obviously, a transition to public key authentication can't happen overnight but we could do it in stages: 1) Develop an infrastructure that makes it really easy to manage private keys across multiple devices so that enabling a device to authenticate itself as '@alice' or '@bob' is really easy. 2) Use the output of (1) to provide a public key based authentication scheme that any social media or IoT or other service can use to replace passwords. For important actions like financial transactions etc. we can gate the action on provision of an additional factor (PIN, Biometric, etc.) and for really important operations we can have confirmation. 3) Since the initial support for (2) will be near zero on day 1, also develop a kick ass password manager that can be made ubiquitous, does not require a subscription, copes with failures like lost devices etc. This allows users to transition to using strong passwords that are different everywhere. Instead what we end up doing every single time is deciding that we can't change the legacy infrastructure so we will do a botch job that has to work round the constraints of the legacy infrastructure. Oh and yes, I have specifications and running code. I am just writing the shell for the host and the administration tool.
- Why we really can't use Facebook for technical di… Dean Willis
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Fred Baker
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Dean Willis
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Jared Mauch
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Dean Willis
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- RE: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Larry Masinter
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Emil Ivov
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Christian Hopps
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Salz, Rich
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Dean Willis
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Salz, Rich
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- RE: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Larry Masinter
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Fred Baker
- RE: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Larry Masinter
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Lloyd W
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… lloydwood@users.sourceforge.net
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Bron Gondwana
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Keith Moore
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Keith Moore
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Andy Ringsmuth
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Lloyd W
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Keith Moore
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Keith Moore
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Randy Presuhn
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Dean Willis
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Andy Ringsmuth
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Keith Moore
- Re: Moderation at scale is hard^Wimpossible, or W… John Levine
- Re: Moderation at scale is hard^Wimpossible, or W… Emil Ivov
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Richard Shockey
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Aqua Q Glass
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Aqua Q Glass
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Lloyd W
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Lloyd W
- RE: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Lloyd W
- RE: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technica… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: github terms of service, not Why we really ca… John Levine
- The problem we could solve (re github etc.) Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: The problem we could solve (re github etc.) John R. Levine
- Re: The problem we could solve (re github etc.) John C Klensin
- Re: The problem we could solve (re github etc.) Michael Richardson
- Re: The problem we could solve (re github etc.) Michael Richardson
- Re: The problem we could solve (re github etc.) Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: The problem we could solve (re github etc.) Alessandro Vesely
- Re: The problem we could solve (re github etc.) Phillip Hallam-Baker