Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers
Keith Moore <moore@cs.utk.edu> Thu, 03 July 2008 15:59 UTC
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Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 11:59:20 -0400
From: Keith Moore <moore@cs.utk.edu>
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To: John Levine <johnl@iecc.com>
Subject: Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers
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the analogy falls apart because in most cases there's no recovery from a spam filter - if a message it's filtered inappropriately, it's killed.surely we in the IETF should be able to do better than to have our mail servers filter incoming mail based on completely irrelevant criteria like whether a PTR lookup succeeds!Spam filtering is sort of like chemotherapy, the difference between the good and the bad is pretty small, and the trick is to find measures that will kill the disease without killing the patient.
strongly disagree. stats can play a part, but there's no substitute for well-chosen criteria. (it would help immensely if spam filter writers actually understood statistics.)It's entirely a matter of statistics, not fundamental design.
in large part that's because poorly chosen spam filters have "trained" mail senders (legitimate and spammer alike) to set up PTR records. basically the hoops become meaningless. and IPv6 is a different enough case that the old assumptions should not be presumed to be valid.I can assure you that in the outside world, the amount of legitimate mail that comes from no-PTR hosts these days is infinitesimal.
that's hardly a justification for stupidity.So, yeah, spam stinks, but it's not going away, and arguments that you shouldn't use a technique today because it didn't work in 1998 don't cut it.
Keith
_______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
- problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers 'kent'
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers Mark Andrews
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers Keith Moore
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers Bill Manning
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers Jeroen Massar
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers John Levine
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers Dave Crocker
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers Keith Moore
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers Keith Moore
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers John Levine
- RE: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers michael.dillon
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers Keith Moore
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers Mark Andrews
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers Bill Manning
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers TS Glassey
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers Mark Andrews
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers kent
- Draft on how to correctly configure servers and o… Jeroen Massar
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers Kurt Erik Lindqvist
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers Kurt Erik Lindqvist
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers John C Klensin
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers Jeroen Massar
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers Keith Moore
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers kent
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers Ned Freed
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers Dave Crocker
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers Francis Dupont
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers Keith Moore
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers SM
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers Kurt Erik Lindqvist
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers Keith Moore
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers Kurt Erik Lindqvist
- Re: problem dealing w/ ietf.org mail servers Jeroen Massar