Re: leader statements
Arturo Servin <arturo.servin@gmail.com> Thu, 10 October 2013 17:55 UTC
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Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 15:55:48 -0200
From: Arturo Servin <arturo.servin@gmail.com>
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To: manning bill <bmanning@isi.edu>
Subject: Re: leader statements
References: <ABCF1EB7-3437-4EC3-B0A8-0EDB2EDEA538@ietf.org> <20131007225129.GA572@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> <6.2.5.6.2.20131008213432.0c1e4b30@resistor.net> <20131009064438.GA47673@mx1.yitter.info> <E003D3DC4E4B3208CF14E8E0@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> <20131009192715.GG49231@mx1.yitter.info> <5255B647.4090103@gmail.com> <93D54BF0-FFE6-4A3D-ADDE-7EC2FC3AFBC0@isi.edu>
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Then we have a big problem as organization, we are then leaderless. That is not good for the IETF and it reflects that we are not ready for the dynamics of the Internet that we created. .as On 10/10/13 3:49 PM, manning bill wrote: > the "leaders" are there to inform and moderate the discussion and where possible, indicate > that consensus has been reached (or not). when "leaders" speak out on behalf of organization > -particularly- this organization and they are _NOT_ relaying the consensus of the group at large, > they have exceeded their remit. > > glossing over or ignoring conflicting opinions simply because it does not reflect the "leader" bias > is demonstrable - often to serious harm to an otherwise worthy effort. Chairs should _NOT_ > presume to speak for an organization without consultation. > > Concerns about "being in the room" reflect a serious insecurity in the type and quality of work that > we are supposed to be producing. > > /bill > > > On 9October2013Wednesday, at 13:02, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > >> On 10/10/2013 08:27, Andrew Sullivan wrote: >> ... >>> What I am not sure about is whether people are willing to accept the >>> chairs acting in that sort of "leader of organization" role. If we do >>> accept it, then I think as a consequence some communications will >>> happen without consultation. For a CEO is not going to agree to issue >>> a joint communiqué with someone who has to go negotiate the contents >>> of that communiqué (and negotiate those contents in public). If we do >>> not accept it, then we must face the fact that there will be meetings >>> where the IETF or IAB just isn't in the room, because we'll have >>> instructed the chairs not to act in that capacity. >> >> I've been there in the past, as IAB Chair, ISOC Board Chairman, and IETF Chair. >> >> Either we trust our current and future chairs, on certain occasions, >> to speak in our name without there being a discursive debate in advance, >> or we will have no voice on those occasions. >> >> If there was a pattern of I* chairs subscribing to statements that the >> relevant community clearly found quite outrageous, there might be an >> argument for having no voice. >> >> I suggest that there is no such pattern. There may be quibbles over >> wording sometimes, but that is inevitable when several different >> stakeholder organisations have to agree on wording. The wording is >> inevitably a compromise; it can't be otherwise. >> >> It's perfectly reasonable to ask our chairs to invite debate in >> advance when that is possible; but in many of these cases, it >> simply isn't. It's also perfectly reasonable that people should comment >> on the wording even after it's set in stone; that helps us to do better >> next time. >> >> If we nominate good candidates for our leadership positions, and send >> thoughtful comments to the NomCom (and the IESG and IAB for their >> nominating duties), we won't get leaders who put their names to >> anything outrageous. >> >> We should trust our chairs to act as figureheads and leaders towards >> the outside world. >> >> Brian Carpenter >>
- Re: Montevideo statement Noel Chiappa
- Montevideo statement IETF Chair
- Re: Montevideo statement Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: Montevideo statement Jari Arkko
- Re: Montevideo statement Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Montevideo statement Martin Millnert
- Re: Montevideo statement Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Montevideo statement manning bill
- Re: Montevideo statement Michael Richardson
- Re: Montevideo statement Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Montevideo statement Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Montevideo statement manning bill
- Re: Montevideo statement SM
- Re: Montevideo statement Andrew Sullivan
- Re: Montevideo statement joel jaeggli
- Re: Montevideo statement Ted Lemon
- Re: Montevideo statement John C Klensin
- Re: Montevideo statement Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Montevideo statement Russ Housley
- Re: Montevideo statement joel jaeggli
- leader statements (was: Montevideo statement) Andrew Sullivan
- Re: Montevideo statement Arturo Servin
- Re: Montevideo statement SM
- Re: Montevideo statement Russ Housley
- Re: leader statements Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Montevideo statement Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: leader statements Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: leader statements Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: leader statements Brian E Carpenter
- "The core Internet institutions abandon the US Go… Carsten Bormann
- Re: leader statements Scott Brim
- Re: leader statements (was: Montevideo statement) SM
- Re: leader statements (was: Montevideo statement) Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: leader statements (was: Montevideo statement) Jari Arkko
- Re: Montevideo statement Medel v6 Ramirez
- Re: Montevideo statement Dave Crocker
- Re: leader statements manning bill
- Re: leader statements Arturo Servin
- Re: leader statements (was: Montevideo statement) manning bill
- Re: leader statements Melinda Shore
- Re: Montevideo statement Jari Arkko
- Re: Montevideo statement Ted Lemon
- Re: leader statements Carlos M. Martinez
- Re: Montevideo statement Dave Crocker
- Re: Montevideo statement Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: Montevideo statement SM
- Re: Montevideo statement Jari Arkko
- Re: "The core Internet institutions abandon the U… Jorge Amodio
- Re: "The core Internet institutions abandon the U… John Levine
- Re: leader statements Suzanne Woolf
- Re: "The core Internet institutions abandon the U… Jorge Amodio
- Re: "The core Internet institutions abandon the U… Dave Crocker
- Re: "The core Internet institutions abandon the U… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Montevideo statement Michael Richardson
- Re: Montevideo statement Jari Arkko
- Re: Montevideo statement John C Klensin
- Re: Montevideo statement Randy Bush
- Re: [IETF] Re: Montevideo statement Warren Kumari
- Re: Montevideo statement Jorge Amodio
- Re: [IETF] Re: Montevideo statement shogunx