Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely literate minutes)
Randall Gellens <randy@qti.qualcomm.com> Sun, 02 December 2012 05:52 UTC
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Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2012 14:41:23 -0800
To: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>, ietf@ietf.org
From: Randall Gellens <randy@qti.qualcomm.com>
Subject: Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely literate minutes)
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At 9:48 AM -0500 12/1/12, Keith Moore wrote: > On 11/29/2012 06:06 PM, Pete Resnick wrote: >> On 11/29/12 3:45 PM, Lee Howard wrote: >>> I can't take notes while I'm standing up, facilitating discussion. >> >> Interesting. I am forced to (only somewhat facetiously) ask: Why >> are *you* standing up, facilitating discussion, if you are the >> editor? Shouldn't that be the chair's job? More seriously: Since >> we started this PowerPoint/Comments-at-the-mic thing oh so many >> years ago, doing document reviews in presentation form where the >> editor is the one doing the slides has created this problem. >> Perhaps a better mode would be for the editor to write up the list >> of open issues, have the chair project them if need be, and the >> editor can get up to the mic with explanations/questions as needed >> but otherwise remain seated so they can jot down the notes they >> need. I think I've done something like that a long time ago as an >> editor. Worth trying, I'd think. > +1 > > More generally, every time I go to IETF I'm appalled that working > groups have gotten into the habit of filling the time with > PowerPoint presentations.[*] PowerPoint (and similar tools) > should be used sparingly, if at all. Most of the time, the > projector should be off, or the screen blank. > > The point of IETF meetings is to facilitate discussion, not to show > things to people. > > PowerPoint tells meeting participants to be passive, or that it's > okay to take up space in the meeting room while browsing the web > and not paying attention, not being engaged. Both of these are > detrimental to IETF work. > > Keith > > [*] And yes, I realize that this has been the case for over 10 > years, but I remember when it was not the case. When I started, WGs had projectors on, but were used as white boards, to facilitate discussion. The editor or anyone wanting to discuss an issue would write out the topics on a transparent sheet of plastic and project it. As the discussion developed, points would be written on it. It seemed to work. -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- If you lend someone $20, and never see that person again, it was probably worth it.
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- Barely literate minutes (was: "IETF work is done … SM
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- Re: Barely literate minutes Dave Crocker
- Re: Barely literate minutes Sam Hartman
- Re: Barely literate minutes Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: "IETF work is done on the mailing lists" Alessandro Vesely
- Re: Barely literate minutes Pete Resnick
- Re: Barely literate minutes Randy Bush
- Re: Barely literate minutes Dave Crocker
- Re: Barely literate minutes SM
- Re: Barely literate minutes Bob Hinden
- Re: "IETF work is done on the mailing lists" Geoff Huston
- Re: Barely literate minutes John C Klensin
- RE: Barely literate minutes Hutton, Andrew
- Re: Barely literate minutes t.p.
- Re: "IETF work is done on the mailing lists" Eliot Lear
- Re: "IETF work is done on the mailing lists" Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: "IETF work is done on the mailing lists" Edward Lewis
- Re: Barely literate minutes Barry Leiba
- Re: Barely literate minutes Dave Crocker
- Re: "IETF work is done on the mailing lists" SM
- RE: Barely literate minutes Lee Howard
- Re: Barely literate minutes Randy Bush
- Re: Barely literate minutes Pete Resnick
- Re: Barely literate minutes Suresh Krishnan
- Re: Barely literate minutes Fernando Gont
- Re: Barely literate minutes Keith Moore
- PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely lit… Keith Moore
- Re: Barely literate minutes Dave Crocker
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Randall Gellens
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Randy Bush
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Melinda Shore
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Randall Gellens
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Keith Moore
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… SM
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Keith Moore
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… John C Klensin
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Keith Moore
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… John C Klensin
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Keith Moore
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… John Levine
- English spoken here (was: PowerPoint considered h… SM
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: English spoken here (was: PowerPoint consider… John C Klensin
- Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken here) Dave Crocker
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… John C Klensin
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Keith Moore
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Dave Crocker
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Keith Moore
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Keith Moore
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Melinda Shore
- Presentation vs. Discussion sessions (was: PowerP… Keith Moore
- Re: Presentation vs. Discussion sessions Melinda Shore
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Randall Gellens
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… joel jaeggli
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Keith Moore
- Re: Presentation vs. Discussion sessions Keith Moore
- Re: Presentation vs. Discussion sessions Melinda Shore
- Re: Presentation vs. Discussion sessions Keith Moore
- Acculturation [was Re: PowerPoint considered harm… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: English spoken here (was: PowerPoint consider… SM
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… joel jaeggli
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Keith Moore
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Joel jaeggli
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Randy Bush
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Keith Moore
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Joel jaeggli
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Randy Bush
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… joel jaeggli
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Dave Crocker
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Melinda Shore
- Re: "IETF work is done on the mailing lists" Tim Chown
- RE: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… George, Wes
- RE: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… George, Wes
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Keith Moore
- RE: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… George, Wes
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Tim Chown
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Keith Moore
- Re: English spoken here (was: PowerPoint consider… Steven Bellovin
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Tony Hansen
- RE: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Lee Howard
- Re: English spoken here Keith Moore
- Re: English spoken here Steven Bellovin
- Re: English spoken here John C Klensin
- Re: Presentation vs. Discussion sessions (was: Po… Randall Gellens