Re: Proposed IETF Trust Conflict of Interest Policy for Community Review

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Wed, 30 March 2016 01:44 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F080912DC39; Tue, 29 Mar 2016 18:44:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.7
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wkUZS7gpzCEO; Tue, 29 Mar 2016 18:44:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pa0-x22f.google.com (mail-pa0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8854E12DC2B; Tue, 29 Mar 2016 18:44:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pa0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id td3so27328205pab.2; Tue, 29 Mar 2016 18:44:39 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:to:references:from:organization:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=eDBiBIK1fj5M0FDbRHMLlFG057zZIMeT72+x0cclZZ0=; b=OKs28pf8M3pMlrIwpeyrLC2G8sq/T9/2dL9Jzk9hvumrS5gjqdOayx7vVY3U9h0B0K 0c320xLuO87mP8ICkZ6YrARIfqH4m1pKBOkdjU97cwADHM5Nuz3npVPo3pD3B1HMG4Su HPXOGJRHcE6vwb09RbiULeGAxl8Iev+auKL94sTQalSdUntvRHKzRxVAwDXDMGZ7rgOE rXNisuS5N0+MNhHS77xXvd9Rgs+wYy/oKrRsGuJp+i1zRvopNzhwydCv5YLIFkhQ5sXn jMBZOUXSeVZkJJl4qEpytDkySrmmBTWZCPMIOlvMDhN81cBXhZEezXBOJrjiBCRxlG4o JjrA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=eDBiBIK1fj5M0FDbRHMLlFG057zZIMeT72+x0cclZZ0=; b=PSXRHByP3Pnx4AzaNx9DJdWoZg9/qF1+/aqYQpLZCqneWwoY09qCZG74PRxHqD6TtI TFLDQZCMWVPp+08fL1abolH/y/eTHDNVIJ+XLLtIiiAKGmngpmvCN2Fz++d4gdCw3kMW 0ixpzRSgewtNEObh43r0sPNC3TlMWrcZSp7PR3kkj+eL+r7OobgbrOaxfgfhr9X8AHhm 4LyQ/TI5eOdfF49tjERZqEpLo/JvipmEt/+pTCxoOrLL8ThX2yD21aeaGwcfCJ8gAy3X caCWrZoOS07kNJcz6LRcoUyJnOkW2PKh8FLxfry1+7KvCrn/IdbBrzNaqEvLBVpieklQ hFIg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJIjl75KOqZO5nyt/WEIlFOnnlNRZ5CQYUqoX9pCxn2aXmL3OB8mZsKwPxxuoNU5TQ==
X-Received: by 10.66.167.237 with SMTP id zr13mr8592407pab.85.1459302279143; Tue, 29 Mar 2016 18:44:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ?IPv6:2001:df0:0:2006:c0da:ac17:5f6d:8e76? ([2001:df0:0:2006:c0da:ac17:5f6d:8e76]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 8sm1157549pfk.69.2016.03.29.18.44.36 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 29 Mar 2016 18:44:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Proposed IETF Trust Conflict of Interest Policy for Community Review
To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>, ietf@ietf.org, trustees@ietf.org
References: <20160329175254.8325.32108.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <56FAEA7B.8050407@cs.tcd.ie>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Organization: University of Auckland
Message-ID: <56FB2F87.702@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 14:44:39 +1300
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <56FAEA7B.8050407@cs.tcd.ie>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/5UJUp0NlIOBCyeAWaNTgXAaO-M8>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 01:44:42 -0000

> - Why isn't this aiming to end up being a document subject to IETF
>   consensus? I can imagine there may be good or bad reasons for
>   either doing this via the IETF process or not doing it via the
>   IETF process, but I wondered - it seems like this is not just
>   some minor operational thing, and considering these issues and
>   aiming to get IETF consensus on how/when to declare conflicts
>   of interest could be useful more generally. Is there something
>   substantially different about the trust in this respect vs.
>   other IETF roles such as chair, author, AD etc?

IANAL, but I think the answer is yes: a Trust does have a very
specific legal status, in a way that the IETF or IAB don't have.
So I think it's normal that the Trust enacts its own CoI policy,
and of course correct that the Trust asks for community input
first.

> - Some trustees are selected by nomcom or other bodies. Wouldn't
>   those proposing themselves for selection need to say something
>   about known conflicts to selecting bodies like nomcom, so that
>   we don't select folks who are conflicted out of being useful?
>   And doesn't that mean that the list of conflicts needs to be
>   public? And why shouldn't it be public? (Or did you intend it
>   to be public? I wasn't sure.)

I think it would be good practice to make it public (even if certain
details were kept private). But it isn't just at selection time;
a new CoI could arise anytime, e.g. due to a change of job.

    Brian