Re: AUTH48 and "Guidance for NIST Staff on Using Inclusive Language in Documentary Standards"

[Brian E Carpenter <[e-mail]>]

Adrian, and everybody:

The NIST site (https://www.nist.gov/oism/copyrights) says:

"NIST web pages are provided as a public service by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST). With the exception of material marked as copyrighted, information presented on NIST sites are considered public information and may be distributed or copied. Use of appropriate byline/photo/image credits is requested."

In other words, it's public domain.

Therefore, I suggest that the IETF and/or the RFC Editor should simply post a copy of NIST.IR_.8366-1.pdf and point directly to it.

Regards
    Brian Carpenter

On 04-Jun-25 22:39, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> Hey there, Q.
> 
> I raised this with the IESG “some while ago.”
> 
> Note that the reference in the IESG statement [2] has been replaced with a link to the NIST document in the Wayback Machine.
> 
> I offered to the IESG to make our own document essentially capturing the list of terms in an RFC, but omitting the discourse. The IESG did not take me up on this offer, and experience has taught me not to invest work on things that the IESG might easily block through conscious action or neglect.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Adrian
> 
> *From:*Q Misell <q=[e-mail]>
> *Sent:* 04 June 2025 11:27
> *To:* [e-mail]; [e-mail]
> *Cc:* The IESG <[e-mail]>
> *Subject:* AUTH48 and "Guidance for NIST Staff on Using Inclusive Language in Documentary Standards"
> 
> Moin all,
> 
> I currently have an RFC in the AUTH48 stage, and as part of this the RFC editor asks me to review my text for possible issues around inclusive and respectful language, or rather lack thereof.
> 
> Unfortunately, the accepted reference document to check language against, and to provide guidance on the construction of inclusive text is NIST 8366 "Guidance for NIST Staff on Using Inclusive Language in Documentary Standards". There is nothing wrong with the (former) contents of this document, rather that if one tries to access it nowaday they are presented with a 1 page PDF simply stating that "this paper has been withdrawn to comply with executive order (E.O.) 14151" - in essence, President Trump has such a gripe with DEI that we can no longer write inclusive RFCs.
> 
> I recognise this situation is not anyone with the IETF community's fault - its a ludicrous situation to be placed in by the political whims of a wannabe authoritarian. But the problem exists, and we should /probably/ do something about it. As a starting point, I suggest we adopt the joint inclusive language guidance of the ISO and the IEC [1]; as these are both well respected international standards organisations, this maintains the stated goal of adopting NIST 8366 - in that the language used in the IETF is standardised across industry [2].
> 
> I am, of course, open to other suggestions about what to do about this situation; and I particularly encourage the IESG to put forward their suggestions to the community.
> 
> For now, I will continue editing my RFC based on my understanding of inclusive language, and hope that I do not make any mistakes that a solid reference would've prevented.
> 
> Q
> 
> [1]: https://iec.ch/system/files/2024-09/iec_doc_topical_inclusive-terminology-guidance_fa_lr.pdf <https://iec.ch/system/files/2024-09/iec_doc_topical_inclusive-terminology-guidance_fa_lr.pdf>
> 
> [2]: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/statement-iesg-iesg-statement-on-inclusive-language-20210511/ <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/statement-iesg-iesg-statement-on-inclusive-language-20210511/>
> 
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