Re: New-comers (was Re: the old fellowship program)

John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> Fri, 16 April 2021 03:49 UTC

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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2021 23:49:22 -0400
From: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
To: Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com>, ietf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: New-comers (was Re: the old fellowship program)
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--On Thursday, April 15, 2021 23:17 -0400 Andrew Sullivan
<ajs@anvilwalrusden.com> wrote:

> Dear colleagues,
> 
> I work for the Internet Society, but I must emphasise that I
> do not
> post in that capacity; neither does this represent the
> position of the
> Internet Society.
> 
> On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 09:34:20PM -0400, Keith Moore wrote:
> 
>> The other 
>> is to teach newcomers what they need to know to not be
>> snarled at.    They're not mutually exclusive.
> 
> Of course they aren't mutually exclusive, but only a culture of
> entitled self-indulgent old fools who are going to die out due
> to the
> inevitable ravages of age would suppose that the right
> approach to
> possible newcomers is to beat them long enough that their
> morale
> improves.  If that is really the future of the IETF, then I
> regret any
> association I have ever had with it.  What a horrifying plan!
> The
> IETF is simply not that important, and if you think this is
> the way to
> embrace the future I urge you that perhaps you might listen
> (presumably again) to Dylan's "The Times They Are A-Changin'".

As a possible candidate for your self-indulgent old fool
category (at least qualified on the basis of almost certainly
being older, and equally certainly around the ARPANET and
Internet longer, than either you or Keith)...

    +1

FWIW given the age allusion, I may be unique but, as I get
older, I find myself getting less tolerant of abusive or
dismissive behavior --whether directed toward me or toward
others including possible newcomers-- than I was 30 or 40 years
ago.

best,
   john