Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments
"Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com> Sun, 30 March 2008 19:12 UTC
Return-Path: <ietf-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-ietf-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-ietf-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AD3A28C167; Sun, 30 Mar 2008 12:12:16 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -99.868
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.868 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.723, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, MISSING_HEADERS=1.292, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LTbFGfSAQ9rW; Sun, 30 Mar 2008 12:12:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5876E28C100; Sun, 30 Mar 2008 12:12:15 -0700 (PDT)
X-Original-To: ietf@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2EFA3A6855 for <ietf@core3.amsl.com>; Sun, 30 Mar 2008 12:12:12 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dOCrBKAEf3tr for <ietf@core3.amsl.com>; Sun, 30 Mar 2008 12:12:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from bender-mail.tigertech.net (bender-mail.tigertech.net [64.62.209.30]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99DF03A6822 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sun, 30 Mar 2008 12:12:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bender.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D7687DB2 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sun, 30 Mar 2008 12:12:10 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [10.10.10.101] (pool-71-161-50-201.clppva.east.verizon.net [71.161.50.201]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by bender.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 319187DAF for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sun, 30 Mar 2008 12:12:08 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <47EFE5FD.1070007@joelhalpern.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:11:57 -0400
From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Cc: ietf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments
References: <20080324200545.D6E6328C3AE@core3.amsl.com> <87myoji2ut.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <47ECFEF8.6050400@joelhalpern.com> <877ifmq3oc.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <47ED19B2.1060006@joelhalpern.com> <873aq8ftrz.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <2B752728-CE81-40B5-8E66-230D5E504D4F@thingmagic.com> <BB56240F3A190F469C52A57138047A032BCAC0@xmb-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com> <87r6dtopy9.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <47EE921B.8060509@gmail.com> <877ifkfu86.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <p06240806c41561285785@[10.20.30.162]> <8763v4dsr5.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <p0624080dc41586bc25a3@[10.20.30.162]> <87zlsgcbvy.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org>
In-Reply-To: <87zlsgcbvy.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org>
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at tigertech.net
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: ietf-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: ietf-bounces@ietf.org
I am still left with the impression that adding references to specific licenses to the draft is going to be confusing, not helpful. If we started saying "needs to be compatible with license X, Y, and Z" then we have at least two problems. We would have to confirm that X, Y, and Z all met our goals. And we would have to figure out why we should point to X, Y, and Z but not Q, W, or any other licenses that may be suitable as models. I have no problem with any individual suggesting to the Trustees that specific existing models may be a good way to achieve the stated goal. But adding references to example licenses, even if we were sure they matched our goals, will not help anyone understand the agreed goals. The existing statement is quite clear English. Yours, Joel M. Halpern Simon Josefsson wrote: > Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org> writes: > >> At 7:30 PM +0200 3/30/08, Simon Josefsson wrote: >>> Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org> writes: >>> > These are interesting points, but maybe not interesting in the way >>>> you intended. If some large group (in this example, the Debian folks) >>>> want to have some restriction on what they can use in their software, >>>> that's fine. But that doesn't mean that the IETF needs to do anything >>>> beyond what it wants to do in order to cater to that group's current >>>> desires. Every such group could act just like the IETF does: look >>>> around at what the problems it is facing and change the way it acts >>>> based on an analysis of the problems. >>> We disagree here. I believe the IETF has a responsibility to chose a >>> license that works well for a large majority of Internet users. To some >>> extents, the IETF needs to cater for organizations that make up parts of >>> the Internet. >> So, then we clearly agree. Where we seem to disagree is whether it is >> possible to demand that the IETF cater to all the organizations that >> you want, or that I want, or <*> wants, or whatever. > > Right. Further, I believe the intention with the documents is to cater > to everyone: > > "grant rights such that code components of IETF contributions can be > extracted, modified, and used by anyone in any way desired" > > The complicated part is HOW that goal is achieved. It is easy to go > wrong even with the best intentions. > > /Simon > _______________________________________________ > IETF mailing list > IETF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf > _______________________________________________ IETF mailing list IETF@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
- IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Russ Housley
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Joel M. Halpern
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Sam Hartman
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Olaf Kolkman
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Leslie Daigle
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Olaf Kolkman
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Simon Josefsson
- RE: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Lawrence Rosen
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Scott O. Bradner
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Joel M. Halpern
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Simon Josefsson
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Ted Hardie
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Ray Pelletier
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments SM
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Margaret Wasserman
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Peter Saint-Andre
- RE: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Wes Beebee (wbeebee)
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Peter Saint-Andre
- RE: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Lawrence Rosen
- RE: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments michael.dillon
- -outbound copying rights grant Joel M. Halpern
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Simon Josefsson
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Simon Josefsson
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Simon Josefsson
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Spencer Dawkins
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Paul Hoffman
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Simon Josefsson
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Simon Josefsson
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Paul Hoffman
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Simon Josefsson
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Frank Ellermann
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Joel M. Halpern
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Ted Hardie
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Randy Presuhn
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments David Morris
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Simon Josefsson
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Simon Josefsson
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Simon Josefsson
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Ted Hardie
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Olaf Kolkman
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Ray Pelletier
- Re: IETF Last Call for two IPR WG Dcouments Simon Josefsson