Re: TLS access Re: Call for Community Feedback: Retiring IETF FTP Service

Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com> Sat, 05 December 2020 06:31 UTC

Return-Path: <moore@network-heretics.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E8E93A0D47 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 4 Dec 2020 22:31:58 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.619
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lKeR55HFsMVy for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 4 Dec 2020 22:31:56 -0800 (PST)
Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 645823A0D42 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Fri, 4 Dec 2020 22:31:56 -0800 (PST)
Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id C23B35C014E for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sat, 5 Dec 2020 01:31:54 -0500 (EST)
Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Sat, 05 Dec 2020 01:31:54 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=Jc6TS6Xmg1UsvgwZCuKsh5n9ip9rYKTeiVuKi0FrY CY=; b=GHbP+PvcRchIrYvqQtOwp5n4nTxPqxpTMn101hGmGgXI0s3gB9slqngfw XR/xsD4v8Mzg4d7SDJltkthntqez3n1djIN1zuyDicqsPKIzsGiMbwfUVJUya+fO xBzgkoL04yhfrRBpWVWaKxTEfNLLpPEOMQxf9Ff5EFgoUX/qOBdzH2fMYS3/fdjJ WDNN2LtQB2zEJ7c4KikuFBg+IJ/l18X4A5ezIzV9RjvfdZoE3RGwfpWbrX/dlImr 96F47YPv6TI/CaFyQUTxTr+YbRgSQh/c/ffPK3zthRIpc30agMLQ0G0S5J8WfyeR jFdK/BL7W0gS5duBFqsHd4w+KeUKw==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:WinLX3VgtEgpqNZ_5e0wp64Eqo438AmF3nje3VgRS4tYziw3LY-xQA> <xme:WinLX_lLSK3al8xZKvFdUkDFUNmsDNqXYSutdydBk3O_FwPn9sMa0z-vmuDX6eVHd k1am-Hj_Jkweg>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedujedrudeiledgleegucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefuvfhfhffkffgfgggjtgfgsehtke ertddtfeejnecuhfhrohhmpefmvghithhhucfoohhorhgvuceomhhoohhrvgesnhgvthif ohhrkhdqhhgvrhgvthhitghsrdgtohhmqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeehhfeutdehfe fgfefghfekhefguefgieduueegjeekfeelleeuieffteefueduueenucfkphepuddtkedr vddvuddrudektddrudehnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrg hilhhfrhhomhepmhhoohhrvgesnhgvthifohhrkhdqhhgvrhgvthhitghsrdgtohhm
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:WinLXzZn9qp55SwvTz--A2Qo8Td4gFNqOlU6MHif3zXRiMzkjk4mow> <xmx:WinLXyXiT2rx3QywVykLVRtNdzfI5pjFTmQxH90UGJH-soC5B80kJw> <xmx:WinLXxlMkNXwEKEdQSegljxhwVoQ2uIi_6KwEsXHORFkZrT4Sf07Fg> <xmx:WinLXzlqwtCZ-SrnF89pkFdM7uutPWv7jZYRosR4Y8ODckLIK4m_AA>
Received: from [192.168.1.85] (108-221-180-15.lightspeed.knvltn.sbcglobal.net [108.221.180.15]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 4F14224005A for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sat, 5 Dec 2020 01:31:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: TLS access Re: Call for Community Feedback: Retiring IETF FTP Service
To: ietf@ietf.org
References: <af6ab231024c478bbd28bbec0f9c69c9@cert.org> <a02e15f2-34fb-4124-7ba0-c0ee0070b39f@network-heretics.com> <6a29096e-c76e-9bde-388c-bf411b235346@nostrum.com> <6ff3c8a8-57c9-a278-51ce-ce24fd2dfc0e@network-heretics.com> <01RS3W7DNPHA005PTU@mauve.mrochek.com> <7057e29825514008a06b749cb5c476f6@cert.org> <01RS3Y1AZ65A0085YQ@mauve.mrochek.com> <365930470c214fbd982da633c69b3b67@cert.org> <5172d442-6bb0-0e11-81fb-3da6e828166e@network-heretics.com> <c7afe761c0264c1daa533cec1895f1af@cert.org> <2088e835-86ef-1896-d307-fc4433ec3b65@network-heretics.com> <37e993ad382c423b90e11b4ca06a307e@cert.org> <f8e0951c-d655-31e4-63bc-357b1085b358@network-heretics.com> <5FB667B1.8000702@btconnect.com> <ee4a65123d7a4011be9b04b3408d1bea@cert.org> <1049FA76-DCB8-4735-8947-6D5CC0144C9F@akamai.com> <51819065ed01416181f85e333720d4d1@cert.org> <169D0283-F253-4E08-B50E-6E86BE333EBC@akamai.com> <46160C79-FAA7-40B1-A00A-0DAAF1470130@vigilsec.com> <8f49f6f057804c2e9bc199df5b7e7ec6@cert.org>
From: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
Message-ID: <f60a1260-0a7a-90c7-ddd9-82117c21d0f4@network-heretics.com>
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2020 01:31:53 -0500
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <8f49f6f057804c2e9bc199df5b7e7ec6@cert.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/7MHjdanbl9QyC8pM-COBLEa9UlM>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2020 06:31:59 -0000

Again, I find this analysis flawed to the point that it's useless or 
nearly so.

The first rule in reporting stats, at least if you want them to be taken 
seriously, is to describe the methods and results separately, and 
separately from any conclusions.

The sampling period is far too short to be meaningful.   If there were 
only 91 unique users for a whole year, that's very different than only 
91 unique users over 12 days.   But 91 users (if they're  IETF 
participants) would be a significant fraction of active IETF participants.

Relationship between FTP and HTTP traffic volume seems irrelevant.  
Again, traffic volume is not an indicator of importance.   So why keep 
citing it?

The conclusions made e.g. "99% of all FTP traffic.." are almost 
certainly not warranted by the raw data, but the raw data aren't 
reported (not even anonymized, not even in summary form).

Keith