IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: Do you really not care whether people accept your mail?

Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com> Tue, 14 March 2017 02:41 UTC

Return-Path: <hallam@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D05A129A24 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 19:41:48 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.649
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.649 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xvxikPdxT7IL for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 19:41:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-ot0-x229.google.com (mail-ot0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 481F11297EC for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 19:41:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-ot0-x229.google.com with SMTP id i1so125164782ota.3 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 19:41:47 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=hwlqWSTH6x0ZRYRBsJXL4084/4pu3waySbJhsAY2DF0=; b=W79X4bDq3Zh9lMeMBpzkly8xAobyz50Dfx0QfQ1gv08yJpzs/VeiAK2Vxv3Jasuykv ZM5BcXyJcUwJhMxekM1B+ojYcTksu/8uPqx/x+vH7Uk8ySqHUrVnDwf9vUlWCUtH0Lp3 I2tmVTtuBVdwIasfMJYH14bVk0KEgeltDHQ+DRdqiJUXN8n6Xbjm6vZpsExvWAc2ACGZ LmtQ/qPK1K1jfXsBUqop0VB4OBJ6XoKAfBs32C43tUBuoAclUmKX+ZP7RxII31eQGOdT H3AXu35Z2RBkGsOkshL7SAo4pWT8XX4ygO57kxBAKxm/AVkburc1MAAdbYnY5EVrH693 V3zA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=hwlqWSTH6x0ZRYRBsJXL4084/4pu3waySbJhsAY2DF0=; b=eSfOUp7hA3A8QKAAEMfhAG21awdr8MMEsE+c8E7zpbhiO28CxrbY6pZA3i8ipVq9Qc JAfq1cGjdOwjs+jCnQD8kKH4S82bGGkwd0LkMsl+Au3PaC95peLg5GUrwnRBNtLeiu9u a5yUOCVcBCp0WbxKgfrPNmAfVeitwL913lU3dpKP9uJRNwqVnJe4N3DuXME14jvc1SU5 yy+XwOuDeiC8dLzeQYfrqPyXN/ZR5tCCo5IOcSzhbqeh+rA96MIwDPjDhqeJ7GX5TOh3 PNpzeatgLOTzcMrluaZjDwXGi7A/OZ3KC42pfaMzYijn1URr/lIbryKhf+TF87KojUeZ IVkg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39lzWWOVIRXS/y4RsdojuzOMOi0/YvYdack9T+Wz/zkBby1LDL2b6m2bKdSQkzuo4MXhsz5lJZnWYaxvmQ==
X-Received: by 10.157.3.166 with SMTP id f35mr18920874otf.16.1489459306709; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 19:41:46 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: hallam@gmail.com
Received: by 10.157.14.123 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Mar 2017 19:41:46 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <A373006B-DB4F-468A-A3D1-0ED07BD98B35@puck.nether.net>
References: <alpine.OSX.2.20.1703132331590.54839@ary.local> <A373006B-DB4F-468A-A3D1-0ED07BD98B35@puck.nether.net>
From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2017 22:41:46 -0400
X-Google-Sender-Auth: girPfHC9paizhNhKF_Y6OCVoAVc
Message-ID: <CAMm+LwgME0QjqYN65a5+Arv4DH=-=pnNLPT65TKYKM4cm=7WsA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Do you really not care whether people accept your mail?
To: Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11487540e2480c054aa7c4b0"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/7aOvqOBOXSKjC1RIu3Qld4ddqtA>
Cc: John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com>, IETF general list <ietf@ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 02:41:48 -0000

​Perhaps we should just recognize the fact that SMTP does not really
support mailing lists, it never has and never will. All the kludges and
duct tape in the world won't fix what is broken here.

I read my IETF mail through gmail because, well its easiest to do that. And
I have roughly 10GB of mailing list traffic. Most of which is probably
copied 50-100 times or more.

A much more efficient approach would be to use SMTP to submit the mail and
some other protocol (POP3, RSS, IMAP, something new) to retrieve it.


Protocols do wear out and at some point it is easier to start from scratch

Build in end to end encryption while we are at it.
​

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email