Re: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ?
Matthew Kerwin <phluid_61@hotmail.com> Tue, 27 October 2020 23:21 UTC
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From: Matthew Kerwin <phluid_61@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 09:20:52 +1000
Message-ID: <CACweHNDoGCUkTsJGOqa5YQSJo++9tHjbD8r45dgZsXCexnmDSA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ?
To: Andrew Campling <Andrew.Campling@419.consulting>
Cc: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, "wgchairs@ietf.org" <wgchairs@ietf.org>, "ietf@johnlevine.com" <ietf@johnlevine.com>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>, "rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org" <rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org>, "rsoc@iab.org" <rsoc@iab.org>
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On Wed., 28 Oct. 2020, 08:10 Andrew Campling, <andrew.campling@419.consulting> wrote: > > For those of us that might prefer to read printed documents, especially > documents of more than a few pages in length, page numbers are particularly > help to ensure that the order of the documents does not become jumbled. > Those that appear to be taking a position that pagination is obsolete might > want to reflect on the importance of making IETF materials readily > accessible to a wider audience, many of whom may be accustomed to printable > documents with tables of contents inclusive of page numbers, pages with > footers incorporating page numbers etc. > > When I print a text document from Notepad I have to jump through hoops to get it to _not_ include magic page headers and footers (incl. page numbers). It does this consistently whether I set my font to 8pt courier or 18pt open-sans. It would probably work for other fonts too. Trying to include that kind of layout information in the document itself is only ever a cause for conflict. For a tool-generated format that includes layout metadata in a portable and printable way (that, incidentally, also includes any pretty pictures in the document) there is the PDF version, which seems like a much better fit for the use case you're describing. Aside: PDF can also be coerced to support the hot new "hyperlinking" mechanism, if we ever decide to pursue that. (Probably not in printed media, though.) Page numbers are obsolete -- or were never relevant -- in HTML, and have been questionable in plain text since we moved from fixed-grid console and print machines. Cheers Matthew Kerwin
- Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ? (w… Toerless Eckert
- Re: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) … Robert Sparks
- Re: [irsg] Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty p… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ? Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ? Alessandro Vesely
- Re: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ? Toerless Eckert
- Re: [irsg] Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty p… Toerless Eckert
- Re: Not a Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty pl… John Levine
- Re: Not a Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty pl… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [irsg] Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty p… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Not a Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty pl… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [irsg] Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty p… Toerless Eckert
- Re: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ? John Scudder
- Re: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ? Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ? Carsten Bormann
- Re: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ? Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Not a Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty pl… Andrew G. Malis
- Re: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ? Flemming Andreasen
- Re: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ? Andrew G. Malis
- Re: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ? John C Klensin
- Re: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ? Matty K
- Re: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ? Toerless Eckert
- Re: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ? David Noveck
- Re: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ? Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ? John C Klensin
- Re: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ? Toerless Eckert
- Re: [rfc-i] Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty … Ronald Tse
- Re: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ? John C Klensin
- Re: [rfc-i] Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty … Toerless Eckert
- Re: [rfc-i] Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty … John C Klensin
- Re: [rfc-i] Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty … Ronald Tse
- Re: [rfc-i] Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty … Ronald Tse
- Re: [rfc-i] Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty … John C Klensin
- Re: [rfc-i] Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty … Ronald Tse
- Re: [rfc-i] Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty … Larry Masinter
- Re: [rfc-i] Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ? Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [rfc-i] Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty … Randy Bush
- Re: [rfc-i] Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty … Ted Lemon
- Re: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ? Keith Moore
- Re: [rfc-i] Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty … John Scudder
- Re: [rfc-i] Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty … Ted Lemon
- Re: [rfc-i] Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty … John Scudder
- Re: [rfc-i] Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty … Ted Lemon
- Re: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ? Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ? Keith Moore
- Re: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ? Andrew G. Malis
- Re: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ? Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: RFC mutation, with or without page numbers John Levine
- RE: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ? Andrew Campling
- Re: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ? Mark Andrews
- Re: [rfc-i] Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [rfc-i] Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty … Michael StJohns
- Re: [rfc-i] Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty … Toerless Eckert
- Re: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ? Matthew Kerwin