Re: Yahoo breaks every mailing list in the world including the IETF's

S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com> Sat, 17 May 2014 16:29 UTC

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Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 02:45:10 -0700
To: Eric Dynamic <ecsd@transbay.net>, ietf@ietf.org
From: S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com>
Subject: Re: Yahoo breaks every mailing list in the world including the IETF's
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Hi Eric,
At 14:12 15-05-2014, Eric Dynamic wrote:
>Solving the SPAM problem once and "for all time", the right way
>
>The genuine solution to the problem of worldwide spam and 98% of all 
>email flows being "buy this garbage" solicitations and "please 
>infect yourself" virus-carrying messages is

I rearranged the text in your message.  The "please infect yourself" 
approach is applicable to any system, e.g. 
http://www.ask.com/answers/494945261/is-this-real-i-m-freaking-out-please-help

>I run mailing lists for the Berkeley (California) Parent-Teacher's 
>Association (PTA.) So Yahoo is

Is that www.berkeleypta.org

>essentially saying that no Yahoo users can get email sent to such 
>lists BY Yahoo users. This of course makes no sense. Moreover, the 
>issue has been outstanding for long enough that Yahoo should by now 
>have REMEDIED the situation. But this seems to much to expect: 
>Corporate Accountability, in an age where these corporations think 
>they are "important" for having millions of subscribers.

I'll rearrange some of the text here.

>I would suggest people start complaining to the EFF (Electronic 
>Frontier Foundation.) This is something which is supposed to be 
>their "back yard", that they would address, but they ignored my 
>initial complaints to them. I think if they start hearing from the 
>public at large they will realize this is non-trivial and something 
>very worth their attention.

After reading the above my conclusion is that yahoo.com and eff.org 
consider the problem as trivial and not worthy of their attention.

>There were calls to complain to Yahoo (these are steadfastly 
>ignored) and to boycott Yahoo (these are also ignored by a public on 
>automatic pilot, bought out by the notion of "free" accounts of all 
>kinds.)  We are entering a stage in the Corporatization of America 
>where it's time to pay attention and fight back, or these 
>Corporations will WIN and effectively replace the IETF with their 
>own "common" (malfeasant) practices. It has been suggested that 
>Yahoo, Google, et. al. are busy

I don't have an opinion about the Corporatization of America.  Please 
note that the usage of "America" as a geographical reference is 
ambiguous as it is not clear whether Canada or Chile are included.

>I can play Google off against Yahoo, by telling the Yahoo users to 
>threaten to switch to Google if Yahoo won't behave; but it's no 
>great solution if they actually do so. Another recommendation to 
>people is to NOT HAVE Google host their email domains, but once 
>people hear "free" they ignore reason, logic and everything else. 
>How sad it is how cheaply people are bought out against their own 
>interests nowadays.

I rearranged the above text.  There is a significant number of IETF 
participants using gmail.com email addresses.  It would be 
interesting to hear their opinion about the above.

>I think the IETF needs to issue an emergency policy statement that 
>condemns the interference these corporations are causing with our 
>Free Speech.  (to repeat:) It is almost certain that what Yahoo, 
>Google, AOL, et. al. are doing violates a number of "best practices" 
>RFCs that the IETF has published.  It is multiplying Internet 
>traffic loads for no valid purpose.

The IETF does not issue emergency policy statements.  It is unlikely 
that there would be consensus to condemn any interference with free speech.

>the polemic tone reflects my irritation, sorry. :)

I might be mildly irritated if a mail provider used by people 
subscribed to the mailing list I run created a problem which affects 
me.  I might give some thought to what to do about it.  The rest is a 
matter of imagination and inclination.

Regards,
S. Moonesamy