Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options
Harald Tveit Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no> Tue, 28 September 2004 12:14 UTC
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA16626; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:14:57 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CCH0Z-0008Di-Kf; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:23:04 -0400
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CCGnb-0003HO-Jo; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:09:39 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CCGjs-0002tO-37 for ietf@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:05:48 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15990 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:05:46 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([158.38.152.233]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CCGrg-0007zx-0a for ietf@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:13:53 -0400
Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3964E61BAD; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:05:15 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21657-01; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:05:13 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from halvestr-w2k02.emea.cisco.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17CED61A93; Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:05:12 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:39:59 +0200
From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>
To: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>, Dave Crocker <dhc2@dcrocker.net>, ietf@ietf.org
Message-ID: <616A0E5C17EF10EF9D4736AE@B50854F0A9192E8EC6CDA126>
In-Reply-To: <454DCF8DE6D4C10F82E806E7@scan.jck.com>
References: <2004927153921.674789@bbprime> <C4A184C3B6756B0AD785E11A@B50854F0A9192E8EC6CDA126> <454DCF8DE6D4C10F82E806E7@scan.jck.com>
X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.5 (Win32)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at alvestrand.no
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: ietf-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: ietf-bounces@ietf.org
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
John,
what I expected when I caused this poll to be created was that there would
be a significant number of people choosing "No, I do not wish to state an
opinion". For multiple reasons - "I trust the leadership to decide better
than I can" was one that people talking to me gave me, in addition to all
the ones you mention below.
So the number of people who chose this option was real information to me
(in something approaching the Shannon sense... information is the amount of
surprise you get....)
Of course, this poll also suffers from the fallacy that we are looking at
both the turnout and the distribution of answers before the poll closes,
thus influencing potential pollees..... I won't say more about my
interpretation of the poll before the announced "close date" (Wednesday).
Harald
--On 28. september 2004 07:27 -0400 John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
wrote:
> To combine "I don't have an opinion", "I don't think the options
> provided here even approximately represents my opinion", "I have
> an opinion but am fearful about telling you", "this discussion
> has been so confusing that I have no way to decide", I don't
> choose to spend my time worrying about things like this", is
> tricky business, however unintentionally. Doing so with a
> single question identified as "No, I do not wish to state an
> opinion" makes it worse in some ways. At a minimum, one should
> be extremely careful in interpreting answers to that sort of
> question. And one should be equally careful in interpreting any
> of the other answers if this option gets non-trivial answers.
_______________________________________________
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
- Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Dave Crocker
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Thoughts on scenario O Adrian Farrel
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options John C Klensin
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: Thoughts on scenario O Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Eliot Lear
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Eliot Lear
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Paul Hoffman / VPNC
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Dave Crocker
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options ned.freed
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Bill Manning
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options avri
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Dave Crocker
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Leif Johansson
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Dave Crocker
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Leif Johansson
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Kai Henningsen
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Kai Henningsen
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Eliot Lear
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options John C Klensin
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Sandy Wills
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Eliot Lear
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options John C Klensin
- Accusations of secrecy (Re: Reminder: Poll about … Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Spencer Dawkins
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Eliot Lear
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Leslie Daigle
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options John C Klensin
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Yakov Rekhter
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Dave Crocker
- Shuffle those deck chairs! Eric S. Raymond
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Eliot Lear
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Eliot Lear
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Eric S. Raymond
- Patents (Re: Shuffle those deck chairs!) Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Vernon Schryver
- Re: Patents (Re: Shuffle those deck chairs!) Eric S. Raymond
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Dave Crocker
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Hadmut Danisch
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Ted Hardie
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Ted Hardie
- isoc's skills Dave Crocker
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Scott W Brim
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Eric S. Raymond
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Scott W Brim
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options John C Klensin
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Eric S. Raymond
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Randy Presuhn
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Dave Crocker
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Simon Josefsson
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! scott bradner
- Copying conditions (was: Re: Shuffle those deck c… Simon Josefsson
- Re: Copying conditions (was: Re: Shuffle those de… scott bradner
- Re: Copying conditions Simon Josefsson
- Re: Copying conditions Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: Copying conditions Eliot Lear
- Re: Copying conditions Simon Josefsson
- Re: Copying conditions Francis Dupont
- Re: Copying conditions Simon Josefsson
- Re: Copying conditions Francis Dupont
- Re: Copying conditions Simon Josefsson
- Re: Copying conditions scott bradner
- Re: Copying conditions Simon Josefsson
- Re: Copying conditions scott bradner
- Re: Copying conditions Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: Copying conditions JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: Copying conditions Francis Dupont
- Re: Copying conditions Valdis.Kletnieks
- Re: Copying conditions Francis Dupont
- Re: Copying conditions Francis Dupont
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Kai Henningsen
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Kai Henningsen
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Kai Henningsen
- Re: Copying conditions Kai Henningsen
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Kai Henningsen
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Florian Weimer
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Florian Weimer
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: Copying conditions Sam Hartman
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Florian Weimer
- Re: Copying conditions scott bradner
- Re: Copying conditions Sam Hartman
- Re: Copying conditions scott bradner
- Re: Copying conditions Sam Hartman
- Re: Copying conditions Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Copying conditions Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Copying conditions Sam Hartman
- Re: Copying conditions scott bradner
- Re: Copying conditions Michael Richardson
- Re: Copying conditions Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: Copying conditions Simon Josefsson
- Re: Copying conditions Anthony DeRobertis
- Re: Copying conditions Simon Josefsson
- Re: Copying conditions scott bradner
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Sam Hartman
- Re: Patents (Re: Shuffle those deck chairs!) Dean Anderson
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Dean Anderson
- Re: Copying conditions Florian Weimer
- RE: Copying conditions Christian de Larrinaga
- Re: Copying conditions Florian Weimer
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Dean Anderson
- Re: Patents (Re: Shuffle those deck chairs!) JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: isoc's skills Brian E Carpenter
- RE: Copying conditions scott bradner
- Re: Copying conditions Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: Copying conditions Francis Dupont
- Re: isoc's skills Dave Crocker
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Florian Weimer
- RE: isoc's skills Tony Hain
- Re: isoc's skills Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Sam Hartman
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Eric S. Raymond
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Nathaniel Borenstein
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Simon Josefsson
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! shogunx
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Eric S. Raymond
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Eric S. Raymond
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Eric S. Raymond
- RE: Shuffle those deck chairs! Brian Rosen
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Paul Vixie
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Pekka Savola
- RE: Shuffle those deck chairs! RL 'Bob' Morgan
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! shogunx
- RE: Shuffle those deck chairs! Brian Rosen
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Eric S. Raymond
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Pekka Savola
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Eric S. Raymond
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Eric S. Raymond
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Michael Richardson
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Dean Anderson
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Pekka Savola
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! shogunx
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Kai Henningsen
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Eric S. Raymond
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! shogunx
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Eric S. Raymond
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! shogunx
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Eliot Lear
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Kai Henningsen
- Re: Copying conditions Simon Josefsson
- Re: Copying conditions Sam Hartman
- Re: Copying conditions Simon Josefsson
- Re: Copying conditions Anthony DeRobertis
- RE: Copying conditions Lawrence Rosen
- Re: Copying conditions Bill Sommerfeld
- Re: Copying conditions Sam Hartman
- RE: Copying conditions Lawrence Rosen