Re: Effective discourse in the IETF

[Keith Moore <[e-mail]>]

On 7/3/19 2:36 PM, Melinda Shore wrote:

> On 7/3/19 9:58 AM, Keith Moore wrote:
>> We're dealing with the most complex systems that mankind have ever
>> created.   We cannot afford to promote dishonesty in the guise of being
>> "nice" or "politically correct".
> I'm not sure I'm willing to concede that the internet is the
> most complex, but I think that it's important to note, once again,
> that you are positing a false dichotomy and that we are not
> limited to a choice between dishonesty and brutality.

I may be exaggerating the situation somewhat by stating things in terms 
of the extremes of possibility.   I agree that there is a middle 
ground.   It is not necessary to be brutally honest at all times to get 
good technical work done.  But it is necessary to be able to be brutally 
honest, for that kind of input to be tolerated and respected even when 
it's unsettling.     It's hard enough to stand up in the face of social 
pressure even when the culture tolerates dissent, and this already 
happens too rarely in IETF even though the culture does tolerate it to 
some degree.

Keith