Re: The Next Generation
Kyle Rose <krose@krose.org> Wed, 04 September 2019 01:02 UTC
Return-Path: <krose@krose.org>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBE5212006F for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 Sep 2019 18:02:31 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.998
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=krose.org
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dvZ0usFJoZGY for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 Sep 2019 18:02:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-yw1-xc34.google.com (mail-yw1-xc34.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::c34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9FF03120811 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 Sep 2019 18:02:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-yw1-xc34.google.com with SMTP id q7so12767ywe.10 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 03 Sep 2019 18:02:29 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=krose.org; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=AvSBbTUvx57igN1zUCeH+uvbXqZHDilR4tsN0V70xvc=; b=JMP1C5DBWNsrmczqekXCIHZLvSrURsu8m7usgmG35WZOE8w2gM6e+YQpKpLJSM7gWZ NhoeIT4sszDAtfOt3+YVQWGEdRXZlnDsixX8OrChwpOT8XPK+nZuyDp9qBwcirt4jXRE VeeU39Qt7vg/n3saNUijMvAPZKPE/rndGPfDs=
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=AvSBbTUvx57igN1zUCeH+uvbXqZHDilR4tsN0V70xvc=; b=BdxBVqSDBDJ872wQsQ+C/OvCGX2u56ILY6+j39PLSr3uV7ByOUJyO7qac8oZL0ui5w 4PeQf6PwRASGzBn6Ig70k/z3BjCW01MMZrAsw8NnOtU8T0XrdARcXSbAyjyF8KRYr0O0 O9arL7pSWXm4COUvglBfRofze90FIAOHdd2pcNfgfg/NjROgVP7660Z6tRm3lrbLOhEQ we/8C/4ihquUEnvREPe+C5cBGx2A9vQaGyTmBweoCqoYjMEOnH75az8dYOPMOq1nrE7I KOqTe7Exo3nx/f1LN07oJFM+Fv1IjtAcRh5EiAFtQOwwYNrANE0xLkP5VL537u67LCgw +x3A==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVE9IiGoPmuAKFcd4YWJt+nLBHHxjctj2wd7nkWV8QrfzKqKQmS 47MKwee3R4ptU/y7Do5nNmNOggpRy16Ya7nMd0h4KqU5jmk=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzRSS1HaLeY5m3gV938tb4/mE9/LIs1Qo6wJlVkyyiHpfWuR19KtoMh5/yAuRbb3PmcSSPSJDdh1R0AiKf//H0=
X-Received: by 2002:a81:ad07:: with SMTP id l7mr26375823ywh.156.1567558948631; Tue, 03 Sep 2019 18:02:28 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAChr6Sz3j0iLGsB2bGvfitPzCkiTCJYHfmUF5S-8zPYMt1r+3A@mail.gmail.com> <138a6588-30bb-8a48-fa63-dea7d365bd77@network-heretics.com>
In-Reply-To: <138a6588-30bb-8a48-fa63-dea7d365bd77@network-heretics.com>
From: Kyle Rose <krose@krose.org>
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2019 21:02:17 -0400
Message-ID: <CAJU8_nVpVep14v2-S+v0ufOM8+eVDKVA2aJ6yvsZR8z9ZsT3+A@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: The Next Generation
To: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
Cc: IETF Discussion Mailing List <ietf@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004c543c0591afc27a"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/AYxQ7Zzr_ZfD9WFmAvpo04gM-7o>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2019 01:02:43 -0000
On Tue, Sep 3, 2019 at 8:43 PM Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com> wrote: > While I certainly recognize the value in bringing new people in (of any > age) and also realize the value in training new generations of Internet > protocol engineers, I strongly object to favoring people because of > their age or lack thereof. I certainly don't think it should happen on > a per group basis. Age discrimination is as evil as any other form of > discrimination. > Strongly agreed. I'll add that: * New ideas nearly always benefit from some consideration paid to past experience in similar problem spaces. * Has the OP even seen the IAB or the IESG? They don't exactly look like a bunch of greybeards to me. * Those with time, energy, passion, expertise, and leadership skills will naturally rise to the top in an organization like this. The IETF is probably the closest thing to a meritocracy in which I've ever participated. If there's a problem with lack of diversity, it's in the pool of people from which the leadership is drawn. * We should (and AFAICT do) encourage folks to get involved if they can usefully contribute, regardless of age, ethnicity, race, citizenship, etc. We host meetings around the globe (often in places that are expensive and/or extremely inconvenient for the people who do the actual work, I might add) partly to assist in outreach to potential new participants. Regardless, we alone can contribute only modestly to addressing the cultural factors that limit participation by certain demographics, and here I think we do a reasonable job. Kyle
- The Next Generation Rob Sayre
- Re: The Next Generation Dan Harkins
- Re: The Next Generation Keith Moore
- Re: The Next Generation Rob Sayre
- Re: The Next Generation Kyle Rose
- Re: The Next Generation Melinda Shore
- Re: The Next Generation Keith Moore
- Re: The Next Generation Jared Mauch
- Re: The Next Generation Dan Harkins
- Re: The Next Generation Rob Sayre
- Re: The Next Generation John C Klensin
- Re: The Next Generation Michael StJohns
- Re: The Next Generation Alissa Cooper
- Re: The Next Generation Kyle Rose
- Re: The Next Generation Rob Sayre
- Re: The Next Generation lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk
- Re: The Next Generation Keith Moore
- Re: The Next Generation Leif Johansson
- Re: The Next Generation George Michaelson
- Re: The Next Generation Masataka Ohta
- Re: The Next Generation Keith Moore
- RE: The Next Generation Michel Py
- Re: The Next Generation Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: The Next Generation Keith Moore
- Re: The Next Generation John C Klensin
- Re: The Next Generation Keith Moore
- Re: The Next Generation John C Klensin
- Re: The Next Generation S Moonesamy
- Re: The Next Generation Nico Williams
- Re: The Next Generation Warren Kumari
- Re: The Next Generation Rob Sayre
- Re: The Next Generation S Moonesamy
- Re: The Next Generation Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: The Next Generation shogunx
- Voting Security (was: The Next Genaration) Eric Rescorla
- Re: Voting Security (was: The Next Genaration) Joe Abley
- Re: The Next Generation Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Voting Security (was: The Next Genaration) Joseph Lorenzo Hall
- Re: Voting Security (was: The Next Genaration) shogunx
- Re: Voting Security (was: The Next Genaration) Joseph Lorenzo Hall
- Re: Voting Security (was: The Next Genaration) Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: Voting Security (was: The Next Genaration) Joseph Lorenzo Hall
- Re: Voting Security (was: The Next Genaration) Joseph Lorenzo Hall
- Re: Voting Security (was: The Next Genaration) Salz, Rich
- Re: Voting Security Keith Moore
- Re: Voting Security shogunx
- Re: Voting Security (was: The Next Genaration) Eric Rescorla
- Re: Voting Security Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Voting Security shogunx
- Re: Voting Security Vittorio Bertola