snarls in real life

Michael Thomas <> Wed, 21 April 2021 01:32 UTC

Return-Path: <>
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73B993A11DD for <>; Tue, 20 Apr 2021 18:32:15 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.75
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.75 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key)
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IBaEovbkjt9K for <>; Tue, 20 Apr 2021 18:32:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ( [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::436]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7788D3A115C for <>; Tue, 20 Apr 2021 18:31:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by with SMTP id y62so3286421pfg.4 for <>; Tue, 20 Apr 2021 18:31:53 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;; s=fluffulence; h=to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=WalKS0p5PTaZsSSNSwH2uj/2Ifx8FGU5s0RYgFPiJR8=; b=aWbSt5R5Q3NtXr4txUoPF04z4KKgicCbkH+Pr/kJY8qXCbnsAfz+v8LJZ9t2OwWNyA zQp7gNYv90nZolFvXoLghK/kaL7wqAshNfCVxqb5gvPrEBH9ANu20w1ZmsuTf39lqm6P ULHvpRQipgfJtJJ7ebLUPiKTI6WPWabOGwqk5C9clFrZyHrSVh0CspMhs0EUFi2FAIhG aWmJVUsTpWtCNfBtwpWcPRBMFDo7jKC/crA5ZXMo1rZtwUx7IgvChSFNYXuIm0q9WET4 6WzDFarxmzle33N91LrSCG3A8OpLUP4YVLYhbgOF630DLVey++wiONIykT+kA83aFDwL tLIw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=WalKS0p5PTaZsSSNSwH2uj/2Ifx8FGU5s0RYgFPiJR8=; b=eNQPBXYtcKNv08UVvapP0xAktaRfrt4Tr5WllfCvC4PZYztrDZEa1k9lJShn/rCfxv 34N/KibQBT7xh46N/Rv1MiVBOb8aIlgWctRQrXkvDGeulTLQg9SJ0pwdffe1SiZ+zcJN wgkuv72vDOaj0ZLoolGZQn3bMy7QpdCA/GZdiWOuqB3SDRZI4HvOEyIXhFoGxVKvVgbc CdPNfgynsPRHwm81VNsAnoS/FD31gVU5pfiW9pU7hiRS4Moe0LMnDc8Q7fFo4vH/104C RRtB+WSjjOLQGDUjfzxfWCH71eoQa0kw4w+Pqkw3DzmFdaM6DziTrd7g/W02/Bni2/r1 gbiw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531MSDhCbD/9jhWGAhSvWlq74vUJeuID1fXquVxNTP+x+HYfXdEE DxQ0GCPoGSeoJMgshkYoRWZRw1klftTQbw==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxVRWQrZDj0TNEM1zAtqLrtnMCQ4O76e9z5l3X8xopdLBjAZaYnlUd+9qwGpfUM0u6MgNU7Bg==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:fb4c:: with SMTP id iq12mr8015017pjb.121.1618968711954; Tue, 20 Apr 2021 18:31:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mike-mac.lan ( []) by with ESMTPSA id w21sm301530pjy.21.2021. for <> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 20 Apr 2021 18:31:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: IETF Discussion Mailing List <>
From: Michael Thomas <>
Subject: snarls in real life
Message-ID: <>
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2021 18:31:50 -0700
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.9.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <>
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 01:32:22 -0000

So against my better judgement, I posted my Quic, the Elephant in the 
Room post to the Quic list. Within 24 hours one of the snarling working 
group chairs declared it off topic and demanded it stop. This is what I 
mean about grotesque fiefdoms where the working groups are so fricking 
insular that any commentary outside of their blinders is not tolerated. 
The thought that no working group business can take place in the face of 
anything other than something directly relatable working group business 
is a complete piece of idiocy and shuts down anything they don't want to 
hear. People are capable of doing all of this all at once.