Re: Ancient history [Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence.]
George Michaelson <ggm@algebras.org> Wed, 26 February 2020 22:47 UTC
Return-Path: <ggm@algebras.org>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF7093A09B3 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 26 Feb 2020 14:47:09 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mQyO0jrZsSKs for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 26 Feb 2020 14:47:08 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-io1-xd34.google.com (mail-io1-xd34.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE51E3A09AA for <ietf@ietf.org>; Wed, 26 Feb 2020 14:47:07 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-io1-xd34.google.com with SMTP id 13so1047528iou.1 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Wed, 26 Feb 2020 14:47:07 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=algebras-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=DTfA1X8ZD2U27tjYq4pGQRZMw75IPDYJgCBxytrSAaA=; b=Z1lP8SN82fCSCGN6TL0hS4syeI/BmRNhmzlnH7ZQrAQ6k2+AsyOuX1Gal3JfOqq6Gl DAxD4dqUFo9XDraecHkpktcMpfB9mYDZE32JOXpfkbAviorZpRiHhqj2HX0Nz+rxJEve l5N+MToSDMpTH/UxA1ysr0cOPHm+KVaDQDV5PVW5qY7rJElh0nKlnsWwcvTvH1XbDNwn dMlkL9PyIh0/d7EXSucizQsz2pqk5qsawg67ZUMdyOuAEJMizHytDFqopTCI9mTmkw75 NICM//MhKKjgDPAqRMBXnBJdRyUP9cbXt+SSEleHSgyifSQQbJm2jD76Jhgw/yavq0GA YD8w==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=DTfA1X8ZD2U27tjYq4pGQRZMw75IPDYJgCBxytrSAaA=; b=NyENvJYDKLZ/Pu02c18sQBpkisXrZ0svAbX2McuS2KDnI5o+UPFKfaa1XfvPiy4dMp KQ0PmMsPPw582FG+jg9eVGrkN5Yy+5NmJOHFSEFeUXT9YRu+wEakMbj2JnTuGt+S8uBb oWTOwnvOXMrD6Pcf1yQHO1aOiITKQJyR8DolwGcMPRw58db9++eCXzSJ7Les61SVmL3N LeQYN4EiMAAQj9AAZ2HQlUBpyt+n5bfcohBxoNxePSnk/bUfNQ5YKQh7P1Clsq/o6Pnz SF1YAMeCTwm2QbHzSS+c7oZYzDcELxCs196An71kx+dK3bpXQG6ypxp3kUItwN3JEv8i AWcQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXF/dyntxmKtyODG4lj/OGhg+U89rK3qtnOob2A1zEwtyQBQ1Ph Ktwia1Qrr5hMfnPj/XdR51PiThsKXPRPXDN5i5Uggg==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy1CGcybn5Nsfvo3PGqDzRFzeI1fA5CLE2VzFY+2vq8ibRhSsUttubQnJXXC/3oM5mVnSGOUZYpBg471rh+M9I=
X-Received: by 2002:a6b:c98c:: with SMTP id z134mr1062032iof.106.1582757227082; Wed, 26 Feb 2020 14:47:07 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <PR3P194MB0843ACAE01F33CEC57266A1AAE100@PR3P194MB0843.EURP194.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> <EDAE6375-EE0B-4864-9834-C1FBC209D581@sobco.com> <PR3P194MB08431E138262F2A43C1D0621AE100@PR3P194MB0843.EURP194.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> <8ADEA0E1-291A-4400-9925-F65A26116372@consulintel.es> <PR3P194MB0843939F3B38426960A66E70AE130@PR3P194MB0843.EURP194.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> <D8063303-7DDA-41F8-A63A-C0244E3E9E25@isc.org> <AB27A3D9EB2EA6D6C3A31351@PSB> <BBCA5D24-2DFA-4DE8-A474-8CBA06BF152E@gmail.com> <5E5640DC.50109@btconnect.com> <071BA479-2772-42FE-8952-8A8550DC6BFB@gmail.com> <0fd1d1b1-a7e9-1eea-5d7a-99159f388ff2@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <0fd1d1b1-a7e9-1eea-5d7a-99159f388ff2@gmail.com>
From: George Michaelson <ggm@algebras.org>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 08:46:55 +1000
Message-ID: <CAKr6gn1YrRaeOi4uVRb+sWxMgJ8FtTBB56Fk-DQoeSp0YdyH6g@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ancient history [Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence.]
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Cc: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, tom petch <daedulus@btconnect.com>, John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>, IETF Rinse Repeat <ietf@ietf.org>, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet=40consulintel.es@dmarc.ietf.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/BUqx-MZzeMONE-bqnxjrYoqG3SM>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 22:47:10 -0000
There is control, and there is soft control. Soft control we live with all the time. the funder can decline to continue funding. The facilities can stop being free. Visa assistance, motivations can move. I think early Internet had people there from government armed forces computing/networking contexts. Why do I think this? Because the UK end of the ARPA/SATNET link split, with a feed to the MOD. And, because Jon Crowcroft regailed me with tales of a spookish man with medal ribbons out to the left of his chest, pontificating at the various meetings held at SRI. A large tranche of the UK IPv4 address space vested with the MOD. I think we had soft control. Not hard. The money tap was known and understood. Some things were done with nudges to people who otherwise might not have opened doors, or taps. Nobody I know had wired down contract issues enforcing military/government goals, but directing traffic to the UK defence department as well as the academic community, and to government telecommunications research laboratories (Estriel, was pre-privatization BT work as I recall and there was still a regulated mandate on communications trunks and bearers which demands the GPO and BT agreed to do things to you, that were not scheduled communications) SATNET was far from ordinary. You don't just rock up and get a feed into a satellite network. Soft control is ubiquitous. Computer Aided Instruction took funds from NATO, and ran workshops all through Europe in the 70s and 80s. Nobody doing HCI in those times was unaware of interest from these people. The 5th Generation Alvey project had specific drives to use GEC in projects, even when the machine was a classic 'halt and catch fire' design.
- ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Khaled Omar
- RE: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Khaled Omar
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Christopher Morrow
- RE: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Khaled Omar
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Christopher Morrow
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Scott O. Bradner
- RE: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Khaled Omar
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Erik Nygren
- RE: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Khaled Omar
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Eric Vyncke (evyncke)
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. David Farmer
- RE: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Khaled Omar
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Khaled Omar
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Khaled Omar
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Mark Andrews
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Khaled Omar
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. John C Klensin
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Khaled Omar
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Khaled Omar
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Khaled Omar
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Randy Bush
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Khaled Omar
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Salz, Rich
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Toerless Eckert
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Stewart Bryant
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. tom petch
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Stewart Bryant
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. tom petch
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Fernando Gont
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Stewart Bryant
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Fernando Gont
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Carlos M. Martinez
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Fernando Gont
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Ancient history [Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence.] Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Ancient history [Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistenc… George Michaelson
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Christian Huitema
- Re: Ancient history [Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistenc… Joseph Touch
- Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistence. Fernando Gont
- Re: Ancient history [Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistenc… Michael StJohns
- Re: Ancient history [Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistenc… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Ancient history [Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistenc… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Ancient history [Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistenc… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Ancient history [Re: ipv4 and ipv6 Coexistenc… John C Klensin