IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: BCP97bis

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Sun, 17 October 2021 19:50 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FE3E3A0474 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 17 Oct 2021 12:50:42 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UTAreOjZUcPG for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 17 Oct 2021 12:50:37 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pf1-x42b.google.com (mail-pf1-x42b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6BFB73A045E for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sun, 17 Oct 2021 12:50:37 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pf1-x42b.google.com with SMTP id k26so13064493pfi.5 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sun, 17 Oct 2021 12:50:37 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Nlp4eoPOuQ2zlLu5bOs5Ai+/aDEDLqIsMIDd7FlG7Z4=; b=WlYs4n0w8UmNppiui0c3zfqaHGYPIVaBIbv1pJrRsreyUY+lfzYnfQBkS/bofrMzwG qcCCPBCxbGlWQF57c/JbiYWaqPGzDh3xp/MkeKLVXhfKkR4/CTe4XL5R+edpSnlYdS+3 alLflgZjhB7uagSmdlK9/DmP2jx0yNsXVE5J0Z95VQKIU7npCEdXM6j+oYWjbwVQL+PC 95d3Chd2v6V7+36ZckeBObH7J8hugPwnbJqszvUQsuHuNtZGLTk550Yvi/XA4HeJ3RV+ nz84OFb8otQFzj1hBEGS7b/O21ZhT8VyALu40WIHWKU8giZiayAL9d6kpAHgfIWzEpfh 3B0A==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Nlp4eoPOuQ2zlLu5bOs5Ai+/aDEDLqIsMIDd7FlG7Z4=; b=BGmWuhw4m7s+kInym5n8R6aqnKmePce8hhaTO1GQITmxpivYOGstcwjALbwxJ9MK85 Rk0zpMaRITEcUBM73YQoZarr90xhHFOVGhZMy4VAhv3JBWeVI3szBEt6Soditr6HktK/ 7YVJZeAzZdXHSgTOmIHcAmmMoITuInai14cMmIR6pKxnWLFpyTNlvDu2MR0ZnJBDiuxw Xb+OJO/cuElBPvF01lL8MbdyYAWYSm1tzhR78d6k/qv3+cQ/8io2bmd7bfWdHvUpbqf5 p026YTft48W+YuV3jrUpaRG83+BmnF4isS/lWzT7/1hYeUs4TAKI4W9XbJ4IRzDB6L2F I9uA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531lZkFp2hdtjKhzGU+S3TQ+oeuNv76YEX+ZcJHwpqegmJXGFxFn jK2fHc+R3m7VMj4GwT7/LkA5VETYh3h16w==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwdgR1TI19kTKS/OQx20skNnIMRv/+olCCQAbfQ/k+MBcFsI8zHRkZlO4xF4z55I137MBG4jQ==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:248a:b0:44c:ecc5:a165 with SMTP id c10-20020a056a00248a00b0044cecc5a165mr23879900pfv.43.1634500236498; Sun, 17 Oct 2021 12:50:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e003:102d:e801:db7:d041:a2d:ce65? ([2406:e003:102d:e801:db7:d041:a2d:ce65]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f84sm10813139pfa.25.2021.10.17.12.50.34 for <ietf@ietf.org> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 17 Oct 2021 12:50:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: BCP97bis
To: ietf@ietf.org
References: <CAL0qLwbwvs2Cp_urgJ=hzc6yEMGDaz3C0xf6RQXRrB89wAx=Rw@mail.gmail.com> <CAL0qLwavK5dYdmYPVxdMT5rA=jBZv1cEyAsVBEWOD7p9MoZR1g@mail.gmail.c om> <C657F78F-FF99-4898-8A08-844B32589DDE@vigilsec.com> <CAL0qLwbLqyWSqFGL2x-FpXXD19QG9-eZkrnTVm_fxt3tUfZSgg@mail.gmail.com> <C92D456E-63ED-453B-8F33-3AAECA40D1DA@vigilsec.com> <27721119-D39D-427D-8EEE-C5027DA15B06@akamai.com> <007c01d7c2dc$9090c780$b1b25680$@acm.org> <A7AD43FD-0117-44E7-9AB2-CDE3CB8682E1@akamai.com> <7FD4ED52C043B31F774E9381@PSB>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7d8b1f0f-1230-0fc3-cf90-a2a0bdc826a6@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2021 08:50:34 +1300
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <7FD4ED52C043B31F774E9381@PSB>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/BuFYn7ZXEDfz_F3po_pNonKOb_g>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2021 19:50:43 -0000

On 18-Oct-21 07:04, John C Klensin wrote:
> 
> 
> --On Sunday, October 17, 2021 17:13 +0000 "Salz, Rich"
> <rsalz=40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
> 
>>   *   To make a stable reference in an unstable world, add a
>> date.
>>
>> Or add text "retrieved on xxx xxx xxx" like Wikipedia
>> often does.
> 
> That makes it clear what is being referenced, which is good.
> Absent other provisions/ requirements, it does nothing to
> guarantee that the content will be there when someone goes
> looking for it years (or decades) later.

Indeed. I've used that formulation in academic publications,
and in my mind it's an abbreviation for "I apologise if this
citation is no longer valid when you happen to look for it,
and I would have preferred a properly archived reference but
I was too lazy to find one."

Which isn't really good enough for a normative reference in
a standard, of course.

    Brian

v2.20.3 | Report a Bug | By Email