Re: media casting cluster*

Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> Thu, 18 March 2021 19:59 UTC

Return-Path: <mike@fresheez.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA12C3A32E7 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 12:59:42 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.749
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.749 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mtcc.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2vF4mtVc4Zu4 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 12:59:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pg1-x52e.google.com (mail-pg1-x52e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE0763A32E5 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 12:59:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pg1-x52e.google.com with SMTP id v3so2155513pgq.2 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 12:59:40 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mtcc.com; s=fluffulence; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language; bh=Z2nybG8wPd5IOyVPsPKXGonzmqXqhwaG3fbFR+IQnBk=; b=jxtFJLmPIvWNVw15Ff/VW/EiYttUkgq12ttwfw90j/9rh5geQY/Xl5uGURPb8/MEhH LH9PV3B8XygyEkjJ5rX+57FEKiOHF8q4X+9VXRxqOu8JveBSEFSZMcN3He5KXVQInn80 CvZapWTcoYCoty1UJ3EIycaQV7iKjy/dGuSJ63lZGol0oyf1HMucbisXWbYKFLDd3+zP pXlkIfuLr3kc6VFMOOtyuGxScS37yh4ULV9HTDBCTHq2udmbR1X12WdwkMFKMvWF93sp kSTMH02lKUbrU7UksAH6//8UH56u3L34C8HM8N9tSJVoLAqKN66N+XNu45uNVf69kZIu KITg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=Z2nybG8wPd5IOyVPsPKXGonzmqXqhwaG3fbFR+IQnBk=; b=oNEyYwHNIOXEdFNlNvP/tc3NtMEeA4ttc/N4SERF9UsMBgzfXELwoQynFXh3nRzrF7 honc11SdkFDIJPklEkcPwiuI85DOXaluM1Jjq4XWBZcHI6/DuXCsl3C4SJnuCu7j7Y95 pXD5GdffQCdkVoqmjDWxQJW0I9tdTYUwQqu+R/AgdBzD9/qUrBBsJpJHyeIt0CV1achy FjnY9pj2ro49R9+VUk0b3/f3t2I/leoSjFtTfATdhmQmIx9uUYL8WzvJlRhYSWc00Wgv cwlx2ghWhcaHnYaNW1rbJYokqcHIxyYc6nit7uHnv5cXJq+v3p2HwV9R8dhCKYXj84AG 2TWA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531tBusE4WqzDVg0zNUNF83eHuggPos6tPJlWTfR0ownW9HRcObQ HyQchI7Jg+poI79dHFS6qdBTiBzdx/OWog==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz2XfIdJYOLJ3ewP476AK8nM2+Q3eRQnbzZKg1ddhmE+RUcKzx4+I10y9JkVBre2Ku2IuNLkQ==
X-Received: by 2002:a63:471f:: with SMTP id u31mr8445643pga.252.1616097578550; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 12:59:38 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from Michaels-MacBook.local (107-182-42-86.volcanocom.com. [107.182.42.86]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 15sm3226831pfx.167.2021.03.18.12.59.37 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 18 Mar 2021 12:59:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: media casting cluster*
To: Tim Cappalli <Tim.Cappalli@microsoft.com>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
References: <bd87e657-5030-1281-8467-3d0035deb8ae@mtcc.com> <SA0PR00MB103627113D806E995A1EA93F956B9@SA0PR00MB1036.namprd00.prod.outlook.com> <913e1183-2b0f-5561-517b-ece57b2c3cef@mtcc.com> <SA0PR00MB1036651D8A6F55F82DD9FF9F956B9@SA0PR00MB1036.namprd00.prod.outlook.com>
From: Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com>
Message-ID: <de2e1751-b75a-63bc-ac5f-bbc98e8d9d7c@mtcc.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2021 12:59:36 -0700
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.8.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <SA0PR00MB1036651D8A6F55F82DD9FF9F956B9@SA0PR00MB1036.namprd00.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------CF6FA41491FA8C700157E2B3"
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/BwIBQfs0CnLIEhLOAGDTzRi9TWs>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2021 19:59:43 -0000

On 3/16/21 4:18 PM, Tim Cappalli wrote:
> Are you asking about content handoff (aka casting) or screen 
> mirroring? They operate very differently.
>
> DIAL is used for content handoff.


I'm talking about casting, but really both could use to be standardized. 
I looked over that document (i could only see the first 7 pages for some 
reason), and that kind of the way that Chromecast behaves but not 
exactly. Chomecast doesn't launch specific apps itself, it just fetches 
the media. I saw a vague reference to a token which I'm guessing is some 
sort of bearer token but didn't see how that works.


The larger issue is that this entire area is a mess with tons of opacity 
and lack of standardization. I can't, for example, use Firefox to drive 
Chromecast.


Mike



> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 16, 2021 19:17
> *To:* Tim Cappalli <Tim.Cappalli@microsoft.com>; ietf@ietf.org 
> <ietf@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: media casting cluster*
>
>
> On 3/16/21 4:14 PM, Tim Cappalli wrote:
>> The DIAL protocol, used by Chromecast, is at least publicly 
>> documented: DIAL-2ndScreenProtocol-2.2.1.pdf (google.com) 
>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fviewer%3Fa%3Dv%26pid%3Dsites%26srcid%3DZGlhbC1tdWx0aXNjcmVlbi5vcmd8ZGlhbHxneDo1MWVmNzNhZDUyYTI0YTkz&data=04%7C01%7CTim.Cappalli%40microsoft.com%7Ca7253e10c6f1471f080908d8e8d1a42a%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637515334395551096%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=qxFW05hl3mEJLHcVK9vkuSb2RxfdO1HGxZiN%2FxVvIbM%3D&reserved=0>
>
> I've seen this before, and I'm pretty sure that it's not the whole 
> story. Or maybe it's something more recent?
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* ietf <ietf-bounces@ietf.org> <mailto:ietf-bounces@ietf.org> 
>> on behalf of Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> <mailto:mike@mtcc.com>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 16, 2021 16:55
>> *To:* IETF Discussion Mailing List <ietf@ietf.org> <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
>> *Subject:* media casting cluster*
>>
>> If we built such a thing would they come? It's extremely frustrating
>> that Apple, Google and Amazon all have different proprietary protocols
>> to cast media from your phone or laptop to a tv or whatever. they all
>> have interoperability problems because their petty business fueds, and
>> for users it is a complete nightmare to try to figure out what is going
>> wrong which happens way too often. Worst of all, is that since it's
>> proprietary we have no clue what is happening under the hood and
>> especially what is going on the security front. For example, if I were
>> to cast at a public venue would I potentially be opening myself up to
>> some sort of attack? Nobody but them knows and they aren't telling.
>>
>> Mike
>>