Re: Shuffle those deck chairs!
Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com> Sat, 23 October 2004 16:05 UTC
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA04910; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:05:14 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CLObP-0007pT-G1; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:18:47 -0400
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CLOIt-0001qo-03; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:59:39 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CLOBK-0008I8-18 for ietf@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:51:50 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA03390 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:51:47 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.71] helo=sj-iport-2.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CLOOM-0007Wf-Tr for ietf@ietf.org; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:05:20 -0400
Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (171.71.177.237) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Oct 2004 08:59:36 -0700
Received: from imail.cisco.com (imail.cisco.com [128.107.200.91]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i9NFp2k2029779; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 08:51:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [212.254.247.3] (sjc-vpn1-969.cisco.com [10.21.99.201]) by imail.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i9NFqwd5004098; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 08:52:59 -0700
Message-ID: <417A7DEC.2070702@cisco.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:51:08 +0200
From: Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Macintosh/20041017)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: esr@thyrsus.com
References: <4160048B.9050006@cisco.com> <20041005045722.GA30817@thyrsus.com> <9Ia4F1xHw-B@khms.westfalen.de> <9Ia4F1xHw-B@khms.westfalen.de> <20041011153934.GC7804@thyrsus.com> <9JLAMig1w-B@khms.westfalen.de> <20041022202042.GA12470@thyrsus.com>
In-Reply-To: <20041022202042.GA12470@thyrsus.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
IIM-SIG: v:"1"; h:"imail.cisco.com"; d:"cisco.com"; z:"home"; m:"krs"; t:"1098546780.405419"; x:"432200"; a:"rsa-sha1"; b:"nofws:846"; e:"Iw=="; n:"sQYarK2E51MdcTiUqeif3F7cWdxIfoCiXhdfb9vD5ee/j0jXL15gbFxF2pXIw" "eAblu0N6XAgK7k+wrbr7bQDJaCDqOmzqpRUBjIRQAXQ7NzadpmR3pUL6wxaRU" "tW+c43sl9jC50Qg1sXHpPjt8Y+Y16ioyQAQAdSunM4YhevURc="; s:"mEhYKW9pPFWe6aNozk3dzl4bhFhZaysZqstIo5aUeJW4G1CdL1D8+zhZZAixo" "BwD7EZTT16Hi/h4oNurLFlYRVjyKnukT6COYQsXdT6YZoO1M8b6l9bQDn9RUG" "GMtw4SzatzO8T7PM7gLiuOKAg983XUbWDcChunDcY/Q0mX16Q="; c:"Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:51:08 +0200"; c:"From: Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com>"; c:"Subject: Re: Shuffle those deck chairs!"
IIM-VERIFY: s:"y"; v:"y"; r:"60"; h:"imail.cisco.com"; c:"message from imail.cisco.com verified; "
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Cc: ietf@ietf.org, Kai Henningsen <kaih@khms.westfalen.de>
Subject: Re: Shuffle those deck chairs!
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: ietf-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: ietf-bounces@ietf.org
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On my way to the dust bin of history, I happened to notice this posting from Eric S. Raymond: > In what way? Microsoft now knows that with the mere threat of a patent > it either can shut down IETF standards work it dislikes or seize control > of the results through the patent system. The IETF has dignaled [sic] that it > will do nothing to oppose or prevent these outcomes. If you want an SDO to not allow use of work based on asserted or claimed patent rights, then you have to accept that a company such as Microsoft will always be able to intervene and shut down a group or attempt to force decisions for its strategic benefit. This is actually a strong argument for a compromise position, such as RAND. In short, we've come full circle. Can you take this conversation to the IPR group? Thank you, Eliot _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
- Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Dave Crocker
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Thoughts on scenario O Adrian Farrel
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options John C Klensin
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: Thoughts on scenario O Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Eliot Lear
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Eliot Lear
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Paul Hoffman / VPNC
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Dave Crocker
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options ned.freed
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Bill Manning
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options avri
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Dave Crocker
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Leif Johansson
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Dave Crocker
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Leif Johansson
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Kai Henningsen
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Kai Henningsen
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Eliot Lear
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options John C Klensin
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Sandy Wills
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Eliot Lear
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options John C Klensin
- Accusations of secrecy (Re: Reminder: Poll about … Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Spencer Dawkins
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Eliot Lear
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Leslie Daigle
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options John C Klensin
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Yakov Rekhter
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Dave Crocker
- Shuffle those deck chairs! Eric S. Raymond
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Eliot Lear
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Eliot Lear
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Eric S. Raymond
- Patents (Re: Shuffle those deck chairs!) Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Vernon Schryver
- Re: Patents (Re: Shuffle those deck chairs!) Eric S. Raymond
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Dave Crocker
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Hadmut Danisch
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Ted Hardie
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Ted Hardie
- isoc's skills Dave Crocker
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Scott W Brim
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Eric S. Raymond
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Scott W Brim
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options John C Klensin
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Eric S. Raymond
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Randy Presuhn
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Dave Crocker
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Simon Josefsson
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! scott bradner
- Copying conditions (was: Re: Shuffle those deck c… Simon Josefsson
- Re: Copying conditions (was: Re: Shuffle those de… scott bradner
- Re: Copying conditions Simon Josefsson
- Re: Copying conditions Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: Copying conditions Eliot Lear
- Re: Copying conditions Simon Josefsson
- Re: Copying conditions Francis Dupont
- Re: Copying conditions Simon Josefsson
- Re: Copying conditions Francis Dupont
- Re: Copying conditions Simon Josefsson
- Re: Copying conditions scott bradner
- Re: Copying conditions Simon Josefsson
- Re: Copying conditions scott bradner
- Re: Copying conditions Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: Copying conditions JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: Copying conditions Francis Dupont
- Re: Copying conditions Valdis.Kletnieks
- Re: Copying conditions Francis Dupont
- Re: Copying conditions Francis Dupont
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Kai Henningsen
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Kai Henningsen
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Kai Henningsen
- Re: Copying conditions Kai Henningsen
- Re: Reminder: Poll about restructuring options Kai Henningsen
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Florian Weimer
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Florian Weimer
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: Copying conditions Sam Hartman
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Florian Weimer
- Re: Copying conditions scott bradner
- Re: Copying conditions Sam Hartman
- Re: Copying conditions scott bradner
- Re: Copying conditions Sam Hartman
- Re: Copying conditions Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Copying conditions Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Copying conditions Sam Hartman
- Re: Copying conditions scott bradner
- Re: Copying conditions Michael Richardson
- Re: Copying conditions Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: Copying conditions Simon Josefsson
- Re: Copying conditions Anthony DeRobertis
- Re: Copying conditions Simon Josefsson
- Re: Copying conditions scott bradner
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Sam Hartman
- Re: Patents (Re: Shuffle those deck chairs!) Dean Anderson
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Dean Anderson
- Re: Copying conditions Florian Weimer
- RE: Copying conditions Christian de Larrinaga
- Re: Copying conditions Florian Weimer
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Dean Anderson
- Re: Patents (Re: Shuffle those deck chairs!) JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: isoc's skills Brian E Carpenter
- RE: Copying conditions scott bradner
- Re: Copying conditions Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: Copying conditions Francis Dupont
- Re: isoc's skills Dave Crocker
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Florian Weimer
- RE: isoc's skills Tony Hain
- Re: isoc's skills Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Sam Hartman
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Eric S. Raymond
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Nathaniel Borenstein
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Simon Josefsson
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! shogunx
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Eric S. Raymond
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Eric S. Raymond
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Eric S. Raymond
- RE: Shuffle those deck chairs! Brian Rosen
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Paul Vixie
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Pekka Savola
- RE: Shuffle those deck chairs! RL 'Bob' Morgan
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! shogunx
- RE: Shuffle those deck chairs! Brian Rosen
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Eric S. Raymond
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Pekka Savola
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Eric S. Raymond
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Eric S. Raymond
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Michael Richardson
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Dean Anderson
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Pekka Savola
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! shogunx
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Kai Henningsen
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Eric S. Raymond
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! shogunx
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Eric S. Raymond
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! shogunx
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Eliot Lear
- Re: Shuffle those deck chairs! Kai Henningsen
- Re: Copying conditions Simon Josefsson
- Re: Copying conditions Sam Hartman
- Re: Copying conditions Simon Josefsson
- Re: Copying conditions Anthony DeRobertis
- RE: Copying conditions Lawrence Rosen
- Re: Copying conditions Bill Sommerfeld
- Re: Copying conditions Sam Hartman
- RE: Copying conditions Lawrence Rosen