Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets
John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> Tue, 24 April 2012 06:00 UTC
Return-Path: <john-ietf@jck.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25CD621F8541 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 23:00:11 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -102.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xHox2WCA2nEC for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 23:00:10 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from bsa2.jck.com (bsa2.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFC5821F853F for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 23 Apr 2012 23:00:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost ([::1]) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <john-ietf@jck.com>) id 1SMYiV-000BIg-Cn; Tue, 24 Apr 2012 01:55:11 -0400
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 02:00:07 -0400
From: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
To: Michael StJohns <mstjohns@comcast.net>, ietf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets
Message-ID: <F6ED0766FFC28D063B59F901@[192.168.12.58]>
In-Reply-To: <20120423171307.2FA7E21F8705@ietfa.amsl.com>
References: <2AC114D8-E97B-47A0-B7E0-9EF016DCB09F@ietf.org> <DCC302FAA9FE5F4BBA4DCAD465693779173ED21640@PRVPEXVS03.corp.twcable.com> <ACDB7FE7-5C75-49C4-904D-8542AC05C66E@sobco.com> <4F9581D3.2020605@gmail.com> <20120423171307.2FA7E21F8705@ietfa.amsl.com>
X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 06:00:11 -0000
--On Monday, 23 April, 2012 13:13 -0400 Michael StJohns <mstjohns@comcast.net> wrote: > And to put a further point on it - the last sentence of the > "NOTE WELL" notice (http://www.ietf.org/about/note-well.html) > that applies to each and every IETF meeting and working group > session and IETF activity is very clear that written, audio > and video records can and will be kept. A person attending an > IETF meeting has no reasonable expectation of privacy for > those things we define as "IETF activities". > > So if someone demands "privacy", the price is > non-participation in the IETF. +1 +1 also to the notion that one just can't operate an open standards process in the dark with secret participants, even those who lurk in the virtual shadows in the back of the room. Remember that we take hums, listen for virtual and actual silences, etc. If a chair stays "does anyone have anything else to say about this", those who say nothing are still participating, not just watching quietly from afar. If some people don't want their participation in the meeting noted, they need to stay out of the meeting. I should also mention that I introduced a micro-innovation into a WG meeting a few IETF's back. We had asked who was going to read specific documents. Some hands went up, some didn't. In order to have a record of both, I took pictures and we put the pictures in the minutes. I believe that doing that was completely within the boundaries set by the provision Mike cites above... and that no one can say "oh, I get to be private, please block my face out of the picture even though you can retain my raised hand" john
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Stephan Wenger
- Future Handling of Blue Sheets IETF Chair
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Robert Raszuk
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Shishio Tsuchiya
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Joel jaeggli
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Russ Housley
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Randy Bush
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Joel jaeggli
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Robert Raszuk
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Robert Raszuk
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Joel jaeggli
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tim Chown
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Yoav Nir
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Yoav Nir
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Joel jaeggli
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Kireeti Kompella
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Yoav Nir
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Dearlove, Christopher (UK)
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Randy Bush
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Thomas Nadeau
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Yoav Nir
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets George, Wes
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets George, Wes
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets David Morris
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Scott O Bradner
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Michael StJohns
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Melinda Shore
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Ted Hardie
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Michael StJohns
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Samuel Weiler
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Andy Bierman
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Andrew Sullivan
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Michael StJohns
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets James M. Polk
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Stephan Wenger
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Peter Sylvester
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Donald Eastlake
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Fernando Gont
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Fernando Gont
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Dave Crocker
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Fernando Gont
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Bob Hinden
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Avri Doria
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Yoav Nir
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets SM
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Donald Eastlake
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets David Morris
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Avri Doria
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Michael StJohns
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Michael StJohns
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Joel jaeggli
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Sam Hartman
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Christian Huitema
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Robin Uyeshiro
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Lixia Zhang
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets James M. Polk
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Stephen Farrell
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Stephan Wenger
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets SM
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets James M. Polk
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- IAOC and permissions [Re: Future Handling of Blue… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: IAOC and permissions [Re: Future Handling of … Christian Huitema
- Re: IAOC and permissions [Re: Future Handling of … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [IAOC] IAOC and permissions [Re: Future Handl… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Samuel Weiler
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Eric Burger
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets SM
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Richard L. Barnes
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Richard L. Barnes
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets IETF Chair
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Doug Barton
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Russ Housley
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets David Morris
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets IETF Chair
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets David Morris
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets IETF Chair
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Ted Hardie
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets IETF Chair
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Doug Barton
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Doug Barton
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets David Morris
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Yoav Nir
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Peter Sylvester
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Melinda Shore
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Ted Hardie
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Melinda Shore
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Yoav Nir
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: [IETF] Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Warren Kumari
- Re: [IETF] Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets SM
- Re: [IETF] Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Peter Sylvester
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Marshall Eubanks
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Carsten Bormann
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Russ Housley
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets IETF Chair
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Eric Burger
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets edj.etc
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Adrian Farrel
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Joel jaeggli
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tim Chown
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Yoav Nir
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tim Chown
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets IETF Chair