Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action)
Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com> Wed, 06 May 2026 20:49 UTC
Return-Path: <sayrer@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietf@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A74BEA27FA0 for <ietf@mail2.ietf.org>; Wed, 6 May 2026 13:49:13 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=ietf.org; s=ietf1; t=1778100553; bh=qF/t+fElKZ6DbJ5NUD1zzWiQ1HDPpNRGdfrY684AN0M=; h=References:In-Reply-To:From:Date:Subject:To:Cc; b=Doa60pLVsjYiiUOSVfcW5UHZs82BMeiNG8/1kLW2VTDAb+aza+5O2KC62bksUdHd4 NWE114oLa/bCh5rR921sSkPOln9zQ6LT8beWRqAVrnzIz4zQtscU700dp9NpuBW6Qt GyIcF6blgQhs0Hpm0AW1Z4GyCgAEYPh5CTuwtDsc=
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.098
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MqkOpIlfjRyH for <ietf@mail2.ietf.org>; Wed, 6 May 2026 13:49:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pj1-x1032.google.com (mail-pj1-x1032.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1032]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8411EEA27F8D for <ietf@ietf.org>; Wed, 6 May 2026 13:49:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pj1-x1032.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-364f7c42c62so93662a91.0 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Wed, 06 May 2026 13:49:09 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1778100543; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=hU9ydlhtthbgSd4mnVlQT3MzJXWB8gnEbth4bby9Shk5+CP85mpmjBMJiJLBD1J/ai 6emRUa4jR6AHoX3WL4PiliNMUXdFcOfzWWH1j6K1QzmrG1O9PFlGK0AbS4yeeI4YlJYQ 6j8dARFd5ZoW0l564S9h/WIaudZ+Y9egYlkdYZKbb+kN/MkSna16xZK/kAm1mtX5iQaD TsEXxX5jkLeNsyp7J2vWUc4btOYkjFW+zW3SsuucIA9vJtQmn2WjWFwAAnadQMirVNKr osGaCKbzHQ4+YZUuxn0enF0a39Q7tx2tABbo0NYK9QMYJ6i1g/89lJhdm5C9QtxPGT8c AHOA==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:dkim-signature; bh=2m2bUe5BuAP8JXvXcFsm3odeTYPlITnHlkKJroP5CDs=; fh=m78zQS4CYD57RqwNaHiRO9nJI+rbFpxIYVflpin1vJE=; b=g5dKxut/ixWRch4plrKc/RZ3QB+VghPvv6xtvAXjWXN/mNpAzhox+dkbLrkZssMPa5 Zns/q8hvtk60OXaX6wLYZKtFegPKNQkFI8BtxBt+abpRsju2/DsMOHiKajTGfF2HN4TC SbMoKwmbQIVXR8raiGg9w37NSeNDIgX5Zt1QqwfS1uPUh7zk+t6o2eoxRrlEhon/9vQ9 oD5tdRjUu9HDdumPw6Sx5k2To0luuk7y3Qzw6YNEcxH/3wJ59WODQxzYSuv4QOqzcl6k BNbopgvepLPLtjLuzKT1xRp7HAFdClPKXcE8fO24xX6BeUsoAR9VD+6Sjwq+YX0DDoM/ ikDQ==; darn=ietf.org
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20251104; t=1778100543; x=1778705343; darn=ietf.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=2m2bUe5BuAP8JXvXcFsm3odeTYPlITnHlkKJroP5CDs=; b=LFz0YZv5xRnO62C6T/OPoZSbBgOu0T4YdVzLzHASSmkUGixp/FplOhWo66D37CC630 SzoXninj+Drjxfpb11tZYRhZFxaEI9PeGe2pdek/+DP2yFI+Et8iv6RCmPq5cvStUNfG qM1rCzWKQ+s/mZxkkB+XE9exbNmkbZkc5XRe9RSrYgSvATyKE44nKK+6j8m2SSCgn9ck mC8hOCTqZGUBFpJDaZncoEcQi1dtCUqkaT5lnQtSYpctrx/IOb+Lt9H99hjFoQc5DboB 9HOvtPh3eqzGCBnk50c3qcVV4237V0NfqEcXltgB0odhIqqGse6/ttgpC0aQ7gbGjxH9 gipA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20251104; t=1778100543; x=1778705343; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=2m2bUe5BuAP8JXvXcFsm3odeTYPlITnHlkKJroP5CDs=; b=PgAs1zLOUFXKeeGG5TNjoUkanWwztZDHfMCuUdU1NmrxLv7WdM6Ipc+lLcVqyKftcb fewQUIEVG2imQWX2a4PwbFwVHur196aANIwvmXIMpUdCySm17EzzOAcBWdpchmTrFpl5 02QZ4A9Fk8WVk7+fBv5xVoy0cEcZj7Kxr/MElIz+bUxp3eeG6KM3j5Y8NFJw4IRjB16o tuajGzjttojTJSEWePhfDcrJtV+yioGSeHqDk+SIoMQ0i3IAYb2pXEc/+HdyVCAwuDAk UI/T0aeIuWGjjNa36AWLB1nXSoO6BEq3dapym3poV+yzHCFya+dQc6Md44lEVwyS9PcR 957A==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yy5fYmIYzAmMcgl47R54nlF0GWztZRzgCP4TDCxcpuh0oWrlPOp 5h53roqMFSW17PhZXuS3EvDWj1NwqpQ9yMVGixllTj3a6yM6CvbIybBJTYFzx8YpU/LltpflNim jlxFShK13/2MCSGhJUa6n7IB04PhiJIrmwpYl
X-Gm-Gg: AeBDieuq7Rq5yU1ayYT3YQX5gE8dFKA2AoQ+9ZMHmSI6oBOFolYE1l6aCY0pl+7xBOq 5LLydGwJD9WCVZFxPAraAqC1k+LtlHRTy/sgy4kiBlzmx+HWZarc8nB4NOQZMH2Rr7tmMtQ8fH3 OdxiMvtth69KQyeWcR0V1g4gt8VWUSYb5w1iJ4d6Ro34aUW8j2n+WCAJz8vtIN/QPMbNBJrqzte WEWHFL1XCZ4HZN+k0PvFgEl2TK6P/ymsqSGalRG3NDCn0fq44JZliBSEb2BdTmvQGQjX7Y2atcJ PaCCTsJtP9dnDEAhHTm1tXKyj0z5G1cuyjs3z5GZFsIkkOpBXNs=
X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:2883:b0:364:a010:c6ed with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-365ab9b8c0emr4786440a91.1.1778100543272; Wed, 06 May 2026 13:49:03 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAChr6Sy1jsjNzh1qMEDVx7ABp_1_uPkfx_tY-T7zPpXTdZiXtQ@mail.gmail.com> <877bpgb7bq.fsf@josefsson.org>
In-Reply-To: <877bpgb7bq.fsf@josefsson.org>
From: Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 06 May 2026 13:48:52 -0700
X-Gm-Features: AVHnY4LglyG16H5VNODc5y17ZIaYoGS6N5P9nyb_aGfv1Vjs7EO2JqbNIaXTOk4
Message-ID: <CAChr6SxiHxOsaReu1zpDg_u2v31PGbH_sX9bZ_q_VcbBzpOj+g@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action)
To: Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000041bc6606512c4b0b"
Message-ID-Hash: NQ725W5EY4ADFZJWOJDN5LXWKXJHIHGL
X-Message-ID-Hash: NQ725W5EY4ADFZJWOJDN5LXWKXJHIHGL
X-MailFrom: sayrer@gmail.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-ietf.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IETF-Discussion. This is the most general IETF mailing list, intended for discussion of technical, procedural, operational, and other topics for which no dedicated mailing lists exist." <ietf.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/CgjuWsELyprjyU0c5h6WxlSPqGg>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:ietf-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ietf-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-leave@ietf.org>
On Wed, May 6, 2026 at 1:40 PM Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> wrote: > Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com> writes: > > > Hi, I wrote it up: > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sayre-gendispatch-derivative/ > > Thanks for writing that. > > I don't think it make sense to permit I-D's to prohibit derivative works > and at the same time forbid presentation or e-mail posts about the I-D > to use the same clause. It seems hard to discuss or present a > no-derivative I-D in a presentation that can be derived by others and > re-used in other's Contributions. The policy should be consistent > regardless of the form of contribution, which I believe it currently is. > That issue is what's being addressed. "A working group can discuss the Contribution with the aim to decide if it should become a working group document, even though the right to produce derivative works or to publish the Contribution as an RFC has not yet been granted" Further including such no-derivatives clauses in correspondence about a Contribution is just annoying/disruptive. thanks, Rob
- List moderator action Chris Box
- Re: List moderator action Chris Box
- Re: List moderator action Eric Heflin
- Re: List moderator action Brian E Carpenter
- Re: List moderator action Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: List moderator action Stephen Farrell
- Re: List moderator action Nick Hilliard
- Re: List moderator action Christian Hopps
- Re: List moderator action S Moonesamy
- Re: List moderator action Simon Josefsson
- Re: List moderator action Bron Gondwana
- Re: List moderator action Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: List moderator action S Moonesamy
- Re: List moderator action Tom Beecher
- Re: List moderator action Lars Eggert
- Re: List moderator action Chris Box
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Rob Sayre
- Re: Stream differences (Was: legal consultation) Rob Sayre
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Rob Sayre
- Re: List moderator action Rob Sayre
- Re: List moderator action Simon Josefsson
- Re: List moderator action Simon Josefsson
- Re: List moderator action Brian E Carpenter
- Re: List moderator action Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: List moderator action Rob Sayre
- Re: List moderator action Brian E Carpenter
- Re: List moderator action Simon Josefsson
- Re: List moderator action Eliot Lear
- Re: List moderator action Simon Josefsson
- Re: List moderator action Salz, Rich
- Re: List moderator action Livingood, Jason
- Re: List moderator action Rob Sayre
- Re: List moderator action Stephen Farrell
- Re: List moderator action Jay Daley
- Re: List moderator action Brian E Carpenter
- Re: List moderator action Chris Box
- Re: List moderator action Jacob Appelbaum
- Re: List moderator action S Moonesamy
- Re: List moderator action Brian E Carpenter
- Re: List moderator action Jay Daley
- Re: List moderator action Rob Sayre
- Re: List moderator action Rob Sayre
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Livingood, Jason
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Rob Sayre
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Joel Halpern
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Rob Sayre
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Brian E Carpenter
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Simon Josefsson
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) John Levine
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Brian E Carpenter
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Simon Josefsson
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Brian E Carpenter
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Lars Eggert
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Scudder, John
- Re: no no derivatives, was legal consultation (wa… John Levine
- Re: no no derivatives, was legal consultation (wa… Salz, Rich
- Stream differences (Was: legal consultation) Jay Daley
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Salz, Rich
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Scott Bradner
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) John C Klensin
- Re: Stream differences (Was: legal consultation) Brian E Carpenter
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) John C Klensin
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Rob Sayre
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Scott O. Bradner
- Re: no no derivatives, was legal consultation (wa… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: no no derivatives, was legal consultation (wa… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Brian E Carpenter
- Re: no no derivatives, was legal consultation (wa… John C Klensin
- Re: no no derivatives, was legal consultation (wa… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Brian E Carpenter
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Rob Sayre
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Scott Bradner
- Re: no no derivatives, was legal consultation (wa… John C Klensin
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Scott Bradner
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Jacob Appelbaum
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Joel Halpern
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) John Levine
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: no no derivatives, was legal consultation (wa… S Moonesamy
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) John Levine
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Jacob Appelbaum
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) John R Levine
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) George Michaelson
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Brian E Carpenter
- Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action) Rob Sayre