Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technical discussion.

Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com> Wed, 09 June 2021 15:22 UTC

Return-Path: <hallam@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DB473A1BDD for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 9 Jun 2021 08:22:57 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.401
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.401 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.248, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q21o2tMQMM6H for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 9 Jun 2021 08:22:54 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-yb1-f181.google.com (mail-yb1-f181.google.com [209.85.219.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F3B1A3A1BB6 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Jun 2021 08:22:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-yb1-f181.google.com with SMTP id q21so35980623ybg.8 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 08:22:50 -0700 (PDT)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=fDvTCP4Ua2e/AhwL8ASy5AdI9Ra0WifA+5oDuwFM5Q4=; b=sopKGYCTtx+JVRDg4jNRKlkccf4jnkuNvccsGWe1pG2aQ19cu6oOUbwoCyNY+roMSa uE6uG4ux3KAgoLZAsW5pS/IJFv50H/K37dA+HooiizPyl8pbrajlQaKbT55zb97p/QOs t3mENbdiRuWojUJrbYynJ8zOjtrs15GqlY8oltVRQDMR0BbpRyvlkmbmdoygH4XA/zgu Z7hRc1PACWtoTucyJM86PU2l2hB2mwI8fkJ3LTE9jrD4l/6tlp9Ajz+j+6Mj6303NdDB amgPthuxh+T0huCofNBo/nQzWaZNI5fS48jg8Cn7439fN0XMpqXwDLMzhQqHNlTeL/J/ OK0g==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533LSDu3S9H9p+qB+2orhWRedLWx9+6ct0txx5CKUso3pZRRXrZg 2w4y4x6stqs/BVoxYuaGUxwqaOcpZ/qV3Yxq27OqgcI4BZ2WIw==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz/c4rth6iTFTFDVc7V+uvnyr0m2RGtUMV11X2AQ5t0iDHA/1tT5sRgp/mbQJwZCA7678l8X7RPWNrsOW57x9U=
X-Received: by 2002:a25:a08d:: with SMTP id y13mr743573ybh.522.1623252169944; Wed, 09 Jun 2021 08:22:49 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <-Jo05E3w-YIEezoXLI6MpB83ZYosN9BemjreW0cpF-DKiwGfD1pdvjQNWNIRYKnfiqfQR46Ny1e5Ee2ppuMlGTLU1Jei_S4gcB1V9tc6YFI=@softarmor.com> <EB1A0152-E85C-44BF-B3BA-54DBF13B4D46@yahoo.co.uk> <DM4PR11MB54387DB8502A81F94E00DCC9B5369@DM4PR11MB5438.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
In-Reply-To: <DM4PR11MB54387DB8502A81F94E00DCC9B5369@DM4PR11MB5438.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2021 11:22:37 -0400
Message-ID: <CAMm+LwieHyBf30CSYig2WWX=ZNGg+8_bfwnLvbWYdrFre_H4+g@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technical discussion.
To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: Lloyd W <lloyd.wood=40yahoo.co.uk@dmarc.ietf.org>, Dean Willis <dean.willis@softarmor.com>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f873f305c456d8dd"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/D07O_JljdqmhbbUahjT6T9oipJ4>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2021 15:23:07 -0000

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 6:29 AM Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton=
40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

> Hi Lloyd,
>
>
>
> My reading of that code of conduct is that it only applies to Microsoft
> run open-source projects rather than all open-source projects hosted on
> Github.  I.e., I would not regard IETF work hosted on github as coming
> under the scope of that code of conduct.
>
>
>
> I’ve not read the policy closely, but at a quick glance it also looks
> reasonable to me.
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Rob
>

That is my understanding, GitHub is a platform which allows multiple
communities with distinct admission policies to be created. Facebook is a
single platform with a single admissions policy

Most of the concern has been about people being unfairly excluded, I have a
concern about unreasonable inclusion. I do not wish to hear any more about
how the COVID vaccine causes people to be magnetized so that spoons stick
to their foreheads. I have been vaccinated and have utterly failed to get
so much as a teaspoon to stick. I have also failed to establish any
connection to a 5G tower. That is not a hypothetical, I have been watching
that crazy as it has been emerging for months. A group of lawmakers thought
it important to air such stupidities in a hearing and thanked the
perpetrator after.

Sherri Tenpenny tells Ohio legislators that coronavirus vaccines can leave
people ‘magnetized’ - The Washington Post
<https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/06/09/sherri-tenpenny-magnetized-vaccine-ohio/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2doVsda38Ctkt5CR9dsc9nv9IdDbg8ArA9tFzlJtNfSzkY6sjCdkXHZns>

Github isn't perfect but it is the best tool out there right now for IETF
work. It is rather obviously not the right long term solution as we are
using at most 20% of GitHub functionality and GitHub provides less than a
quarter of the functionality I think we need.

I have tried to get people to discuss what features they would want but
they turn into editor wars of the 'what makes you think that you have the
skills to design something better than a Web front end to a source code
manager Linus threw together in a week, besides the fact you have been
working on Web collaboration technologies since 1993 and your colleagues at
MIT put the OpenMeeting together for Vice President Al Gore in 1994?' sort.