Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets
John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> Tue, 24 April 2012 21:27 UTC
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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 17:27:44 -0400
From: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
To: mrex@sap.com, Michael StJohns <mstjohns@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets
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Martin, I invite you to post a copy of your law degree, license, and credentials for the edification of this group. In the interim and in the event that you are correct, I strongly encourage the IASA to avoid ever holding an IETF meeting in Germany again without first obtaining appropriate legal advice that it is acceptable given our existing conditions to record the names and identities of anyone participating in any IETF activity, whether they are explicitly sign something, are photographed, are identified by RFID, have their names written down after they stay something at a microphone or on Jabber, raise their hands (presumably in the expectation of being identified), or can be identified in some other way. Of course, an acceptable alternative to "no meetings in Germany or any other country with the rules you suggest apply" would be explicit permission on registration forms as a condition of attendance. Or, presumably, a Chair could make an announcement that anyone who continues to sit in a particular room is giving permission for such identification. As Christian suggests, we simply have to be able to identify participants in WG sessions, even silent ones, to have an open standards process. Again, I will strongly defend your right to privacy, absence of identifying photography, etc. Just do not simultaneously claim that right and the right to participate in the IETF. john --On Tuesday, 24 April, 2012 21:34 +0200 Martin Rex <mrex@sap.com> wrote: > Michael StJohns wrote: >> >> While Wikipedia is sometimes wrong, it does tend to have >> useful information.= Specifically >> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Country_specific_c >> on= sent_requirements#Germany >> >> > Publishing or propagating the image does not normally >> > require consent: If the person is an irrelevant or merely >> > accidental part (Beiwerk) of a landscape or locality shown >> > in the picture. >> > If the person took part in a public meeting or event and is >> > depicted on this occasion. >> > If distribution or exhibition serves a higher artistic >> > interest. >> >> http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/kunsturhg/__23.html > > That information in an incorrect translation, and it is > quoting only part (1) of the article and missing part (2). > > > §22 (1) 2.+ 3. KunstUrhG are quite related in the intent > > > the translation of (2) captures the original meaning correctly: > > 2. Bilder, auf denen die Personen nur als Beiwerk neben einer > Landschaft oder sonstigen Örtlichkeit erscheinen; > >> > If the person is an irrelevant or merely accidental part >> > (Beiwerk) of a landscape or locality shown in the picture. > > > The translation of (3) is not quite correct: > > 3. Bilder von Versammlungen, Aufzügen und ähnlichen > Vorgängen, an denen die dargestellten Personen > teilgenommen haben; > >> > If the person took part in a public meeting or event and is >> > depicted on this occasion. > > This is about pictures of an (public) assembly, parade or > similar event which the pictured peoples participated, and NOT > the other way round! > > The translation you quoted is flawed logic. > > from the rules: > 1. all men are mortals > 2. socrates was a man > you can infer "socrates was mortal", > > But infering the reverse "all mortals are men", "all men are > socrates" or "all mortals are socrates" amounts to flawed > logic. > > > When making a photo of the audience(!) with a small number of > people prominently in the foreground, then the exclusion no > longer applies and you will need consent of the folks in order > to _publish_ such a photo, similar for taking pictures of the > _spectators_ of a parade. > > For people doing presentations in front, or speaking at the > podium of a public assembly or convention, the exception may > apply to a singular depicted person if it is still a "picture > of the event" (i.e. a picture in context). > > Just because someone participates an assembly, convention or is > the spectator of a parade does NOT result in a general loss of > control over pictures&portraits of that person. > > > -Martin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Stephan Wenger
- Future Handling of Blue Sheets IETF Chair
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Robert Raszuk
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Shishio Tsuchiya
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Joel jaeggli
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Russ Housley
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Randy Bush
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Joel jaeggli
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Robert Raszuk
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Robert Raszuk
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Joel jaeggli
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tim Chown
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Yoav Nir
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Yoav Nir
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Joel jaeggli
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Kireeti Kompella
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Yoav Nir
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Dearlove, Christopher (UK)
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Randy Bush
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Thomas Nadeau
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Yoav Nir
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets George, Wes
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets George, Wes
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets David Morris
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Scott O Bradner
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Michael StJohns
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Melinda Shore
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Ted Hardie
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Michael StJohns
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Samuel Weiler
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Andy Bierman
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Andrew Sullivan
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Michael StJohns
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets James M. Polk
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Stephan Wenger
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Peter Sylvester
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Donald Eastlake
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Fernando Gont
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Fernando Gont
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Dave Crocker
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Fernando Gont
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Bob Hinden
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Avri Doria
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Yoav Nir
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets SM
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Donald Eastlake
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets David Morris
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Avri Doria
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Michael StJohns
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Michael StJohns
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Joel jaeggli
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Sam Hartman
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Christian Huitema
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Robin Uyeshiro
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Lixia Zhang
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets James M. Polk
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Stephen Farrell
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Stephan Wenger
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets SM
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets James M. Polk
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- IAOC and permissions [Re: Future Handling of Blue… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: IAOC and permissions [Re: Future Handling of … Christian Huitema
- Re: IAOC and permissions [Re: Future Handling of … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [IAOC] IAOC and permissions [Re: Future Handl… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Samuel Weiler
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Eric Burger
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets SM
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Richard L. Barnes
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Richard L. Barnes
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets IETF Chair
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Doug Barton
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Russ Housley
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets David Morris
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets IETF Chair
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets David Morris
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets IETF Chair
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Ted Hardie
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets IETF Chair
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Doug Barton
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Doug Barton
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets David Morris
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Yoav Nir
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Peter Sylvester
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Melinda Shore
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Ted Hardie
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Melinda Shore
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Yoav Nir
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets John C Klensin
- Re: [IETF] Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Warren Kumari
- Re: [IETF] Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Martin Rex
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets SM
- Re: [IETF] Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Peter Sylvester
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Marshall Eubanks
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Carsten Bormann
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Russ Housley
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets IETF Chair
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Eric Burger
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets edj.etc
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Adrian Farrel
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Joel jaeggli
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tim Chown
- RE: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Yoav Nir
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets Tim Chown
- Re: Future Handling of Blue Sheets IETF Chair