RE: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address blacklists...
ned+ietf@mauve.mrochek.com Wed, 10 December 2008 15:57 UTC
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Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 07:42:22 -0800
From: ned+ietf@mauve.mrochek.com
Subject: RE: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address blacklists...
In-reply-to: "Your message dated Tue, 09 Dec 2008 15:00:50 -0800" <080001c95a51$fb11ac20$f1350460$@net>
To: Tony Hain <alh-ietf@tndh.net>
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(While Dave's response to this is exactly correct - notihng in my original note had anything to do with sacrificing small scale setups - our failure to discuss these matters sensibly has some very important implications for small operators that deserve further comment.) > ned+ietf@mauve.mrochek.com wrote: > > ... > > Maybe it's just me, but I'll take the evidence presented by someone > > who has access to the operational statistics for a mail system > > that services 10s of millions of end users and handles thousands of > > outsourced email setups over someone like myself who runs > > a tiny little setup any day. > While large scale is important, small scale setups must not be sacrificed > along the way. Of course not. But that's precisely the effect our current approach - or rather, non-approach, is having. > We must not create a system where a small cartel of players > hold the keys to 'interoperability' at the deployment level. We're not creating much of anything - we seem to prefer endless religious arguments and discussions of irrelevanyt anecdotes to actually getting stuff done. And one of the results of this is that the big players, who would very much like to see the development of standards for accessing reputation systems, standards for so-called feedback loops, and so on and so forth, get tired of waiting and simply roll their own. And when that happens the little guys have no place at the table. > Current > filtering practice creates way too many false positives already because the > large organizations can't afford to bother with identifying the source. My > lowly server just handles my wife, myself, and my daughter's business, and > way too often I hear complaints about bounces because largeispmailer.com is > refusing to accept mail from an insignificant non-member-of-the-club server. Exactly. You and I are not able to play because the standards for the reputation systems and other antispam measure these guys are using are designed in private with no consideration given to open access. The way you change that is by, you know, codifying ways to do these things in openly available standards. But we don't seem to be able to do that. Ned _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
- How I deal with (false positive) IP-address black… Theodore Tso
- Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… Mark Andrews
- Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… Theodore Tso
- Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… Mark Andrews
- Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… Theodore Tso
- Re: Why the IETF is irrelevant to the future of e… John Levine
- Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… SM
- Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… Paul Hoffman
- Re: Why the IETF is irrelevant to the future of e… Peter Dambier
- Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… ned+ietf
- Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… Dave CROCKER
- RE: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… michael.dillon
- RE: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… ned+ietf
- Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… Peter Dambier
- Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… Dave CROCKER
- RE: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… michael.dillon
- RE: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… michael.dillon
- Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… Keith Moore
- Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… Dave CROCKER
- RE: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… Tony Hain
- Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… Dave CROCKER
- Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… ned+ietf
- Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… Keith Moore
- Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… Peter Dambier
- RE: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… michael.dillon
- RE: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… ned+ietf
- Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… Rich Kulawiec
- Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… Theodore Tso
- Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… Dave CROCKER
- Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… Paul Hoffman
- Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… Randy Presuhn
- Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… Keith Moore
- Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… Douglas Otis
- Re: How I deal with (false positive) IP-address b… John C Klensin
- Accountable Use Registry was: How I deal with (fa… Douglas Otis
- Re: Accountable Use Registry was: How I deal with… John C Klensin