Re: "why I quit writing internet standards"
Hector Santos <hsantos@isdg.net> Sun, 20 April 2014 19:44 UTC
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Message-ID: <53542370.9040409@isdg.net>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 15:43:44 -0400
From: Hector Santos <hsantos@isdg.net>
Organization: Santronics Software, Inc.
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To: Douglas Otis <doug.mtview@gmail.com>, Dave Crocker <dcrocker@bbiw.net>
Subject: Re: "why I quit writing internet standards"
References: <CF71721A.180A9%wesley.george@twcable.com> <534C067D.8080506@meetinghouse.net> <CAL0qLwa5CRwxn0V=7D84KFv9K_u5W5L+PPUXc3KPkD0YHkNo1w@mail.gmail.com> <4756885.Eo3b3po9Vj@scott-latitude-e6320> <5353FEF7.2060708@bbiw.net> <AB5D3900-BB09-4C4A-B52C-46349C086927@gmail.com>
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Cc: Scott Kitterman <scott@kitterman.com>, ietf@ietf.org
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On 4/20/2014 2:25 PM, Douglas Otis wrote: > > That said, DMARC was never intended to address needs beyond the >narrow scope of high value transactional email. And unfortunately, this attitude was always wrong. Hate to say, but "I told you so." What the design attitude says is this: If the domain is high value, then only applied policy. For all others, ignore it. Well, is is "high value?" How do you distinguish "value" in an anonymous world? Must everyone have a profile in some Good Reputation Databases? Fee based? Even if we want this, we are not there yet!! The seed to all this author domain brush back was born in the unfortunate RFC5016 DKIM Signing Practice requirements document last minute addition of item 10 in section 5.3 where it strongly mandates that a 1st party policy MUST NOT override the 3rd party policy. RFC 5016, Section 5.3 10. SSP MUST NOT provide a mechanism that impugns the existence of non-first party signatures in a message. A corollary of this requirement is that the protocol MUST NOT link practices of first party signers with the practices of third party signers. INFORMATIVE NOTE: the main thrust of this requirement is that practices should only be published for that which the publisher has control, and should not meddle in what is ultimately the local policy of the receiver. Refs: Deployment Consideration, Section 4.3. Just replace the term SSP for DMARC and you have the same thing. This is where all the resistance towards author domain policies began with this written stone functional requirement. This attitude is still among us. Not saying its completely wrong, but it certainly not right either. Yahoo proved it for us. The irony? Rather than try to honor policy to keep the security high, we are looking for ways to circumvent it. Ignoring Policy no longer works. -- HLS
- "why I quit writing internet standards" George, Wes
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- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Ted Lemon
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Michael Richardson
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- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Andy Bierman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Simon Pietro Romano
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Miles Fidelman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" David Meyer
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Miles Fidelman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Dale R. Worley
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Scott Kitterman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Miles Fidelman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Jari Arkko
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Bjoern A. Zeeb
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Spencer Dawkins
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Carsten Bormann
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Spencer Dawkins
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Thomas Clausen
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Wesley Eddy
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Yoav Nir
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Thomas Clausen
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Wesley Eddy
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Miles Fidelman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Spencer Dawkins
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Thomas Clausen
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Melinda Shore
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Carsten Bormann
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Thomas Clausen
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Spencer Dawkins
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Brian E Carpenter
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Dave Cridland
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Thomas Nadeau
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Thomas Nadeau
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Benoit Claise
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Benoit Claise
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Benoit Claise
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Thomas Nadeau
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Miles Fidelman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Yoav Nir
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" S Moonesamy
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Benoit Claise
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Douglas Otis
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Andy Bierman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Hector Santos
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Dave Crocker
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Scott Kitterman
- Re: DMARC not-WG, was "why I quit writing interne… John Levine
- Re: DMARC not-WG, was "why I quit writing interne… Dave Crocker
- Re: DMARC not-WG, was "why I quit writing interne… Hector Santos
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Dave Crocker
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Scott Kitterman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Dave Crocker
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Scott Kitterman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Douglas Otis