Re: Stray thoughts on ' Update of IESG statement "Last Call Guidance to the Community"'

tom petch <daedulus@btconnect.com> Fri, 23 April 2021 11:19 UTC

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Subject: Re: Stray thoughts on ' Update of IESG statement "Last Call Guidance to the Community"'
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, ietf@ietf.org
References: <161859546000.27694.13585496003852397044@ietfa.amsl.com> <6081A148.7070701@btconnect.com> <8279565a-ee50-ab3a-8b97-afc6ca23f4ba@gmail.com>
From: tom petch <daedulus@btconnect.com>
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Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2021 12:19:19 +0100
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On 22/04/2021 21:40, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> Tom,
>
>> Last, comments from organised review teams should be sent to the last
>> call list as opposed to being made available to the community.
>
> The last call list *is* available to the community, so this is just
> being more specific about what "available to the community" means.
> Is that a problem?


No problem.  I wondered why the statement had been made and why now so 
compared the text old and new, waited a week for something else to 
appear and then asked, and thought I might save others time by posting 
what I had found which (also could lead to others pointing out something 
I had missed).

I think that 'available to the community' allowed a lot of leeway back 
in 2007 and that, with the last call list now in existence, then the 
2021 statement is clearer.

Tom Petch

> Regards
>     Brian
>
> On 23-Apr-21 04:16, tom petch wrote:
>> I finally got around to finding the previous IESG statement on this,
>> from 14 years ago, to see what has changed.  AFAICT there are three changes.
>> First a reference to BCP9.
>> Second a request to make it clear which I-D is being commented on.
>> Last, comments from organised review teams should be sent to the last
>> call list as opposed to being made available to the community.
>> I am left wondering why, and why now.  There was a discussion about the
>> usefulness of the last call list recently but that does not seem
>> relevant.  As ever, this comes from the IESG so will have one or more
>> humans behind it, as opposed to being created by AI, but I do wonder who
>> and why.
>>
>> Tom Petch
>>
>>
>>
>> On 16/04/2021 18:51, IESG Secretary wrote:
>>> Last Call Guidance to the Community, 16 April 2021
>>>
>>> Online: <https://www.ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/last-call-guidance/>
>>>
>>> In line with BCP 9, the IESG issues IETF Last Calls for all documents in the
>>> IETF Stream.
>>>
>>> In normal cases, since this is the final stage of open community review, the
>>> IESG prefers that comments on Last Calls be sent to the last-call@ietf.org list.
>>> Authors, WG Chairs and the responsible Area Director are presumed to see all
>>> such messages, but they may be copied if the person sending a comment so desires
>>> (e.g., by copying the draft-name-xyz.all@ietf.org email alias.)
>>>
>>> It is appropriate to send purely editorial or typographical comments only to the
>>> authors, WG Chairs, and the responsible Area Director.
>>>
>>> If substantive discussion of a technical comment is needed, then it is often
>>> appropriate to move that discussion to the WG list, once the comment has been
>>> made on the last-call list. (For non-WG drafts, it should normally stay on the
>>> last-call list.)
>>>
>>> In exceptional cases, a comment may be sent only to iesg@ietf.org. However, the
>>> IESG will normally need to discuss these comments with the authors, the WG
>>> Chairs, and possibly with the WG as a whole. Once a comment is sent to the IESG,
>>> it becomes a contribution to the IETF standards process, even if anonymity is
>>> requested.
>>>
>>> Please ensure that it is clear which draft is the subject of a comment. From a
>>> practical point of view, Last Call comments should preserve the beginning of the
>>> original subject header, up to at least the end of the draft name. For example,
>>> a comment on:
>>>
>>>     Last Call: draft-ietf-pigeon-post-02.txt (Avian Mail Transfer Protocol)
>>>     to Proposed Standard
>>>
>>> could carry a subject such as
>>>
>>>     Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-pigeon-post-02.txt - what about avian flu
>>>     risk?
>>>
>>> This is to ensure that Last Call comments can be automatically sorted.
>>>
>>> There are some organized review teams in the IETF (e.g., Gen-ART and the
>>> Security Directorate). Reviews from such teams should be sent to the
>>> last-call@ietf.org list in addition to the review team itself, if they are
>>> intended as Last Call comments.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> IETF-Announce mailing list
>>> IETF-Announce@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
> .
>