Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107
Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com> Tue, 31 March 2020 05:31 UTC
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Subject: Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107
To: ietf@ietf.org
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From: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2020 01:31:44 -0400
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On 3/31/20 1:12 AM, Pete Resnick wrote: > On 30 Mar 2020, at 23:25, Barry Leiba wrote: > >> 2. We are concerned that rushing such a process by, for example, >> posting a draft now and immediately last-calling it without a normal >> period of discussion would call into question the legitimacy of our >> consensus process and would set a bad precedent. > > Barry, I think the IESG has made an error, specifically on this point. > Last-calling a document for 4 weeks is precisely designed for the > situation where most (if not all) of the community has not had a > chance to comment on it. And in the only specifically documented > variance procedure in the IETF (2026 section 9), this kind of thing is > exactly what it anticipates: The IESG writes up what it thinks it's > heard about what the variance should be, it immediately puts it out > for Last Call, it takes those 4 weeks to assess the consensus of the > IETF and adjusts the document to suit, and then it publishes. > Following that same model has a much better chance of standing up to > questions of legitimacy than the IESG proposal: collecting opinions > with no text to look at, and then in 4 weeks writing some text that > the IESG thinks represents the consensus and calling it approved. That > is inviting a great deal of contention. > > You (or I or any number of other people in this discussion) can write > up and post a draft in less than 24 hours. The IESG can immediately > Last Call it. Folks can then discuss the document and the IESG to make > adjustments to it over the next 4 weeks. It can be acted upon once > approved. To do otherwise goes against the openness of our processes. > > Please, IESG, reconsider your decision on this, and quickly. You can > do the right thing in a reasonable amount of time without trying to do > something that is inviting a protracted process fight. +1. I was about to raise the same objection, but Pete's response is more succinct and precise. Keith
- NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Barry Leiba
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Lars Eggert
- RE: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Daniele Ceccarelli
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Mary B
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Russ Housley
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Carsten Bormann
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Russ Housley
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Paul Wouters
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Lars Eggert
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Keith Moore
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Eric Rescorla
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Stephen Farrell
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 John C Klensin
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Carsten Bormann
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Barry Leiba
- Forced virtual IETF 109 as well as 107 (was: Re: … John C Klensin
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 John C Klensin
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Bob Hinden
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 John C Klensin
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Lars Eggert
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Paul Hoffman
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Salz, Rich
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Michael Richardson
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Toerless Eckert
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Vittorio Bertola
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Michael StJohns
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 John C Klensin
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Randy Bush
- Re: Forced virtual IETF 109 as well as 107 (was: … tom petch
- Re: Forced virtual IETF 109 as well as 107 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Forced virtual IETF 109 as well as 107 Brian E Carpenter
- RE: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Eric Gray
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Michael Richardson
- Re: Forced virtual IETF 109 as well as 107 Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Job Snijders
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Randy Bush
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Andrew G. Malis
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Keith Moore
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Barry Leiba
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 S Moonesamy
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Pete Resnick
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Stewart Bryant
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Stewart Bryant
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 John C Klensin
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Michael Richardson
- Re: Forced virtual IETF 109 as well as 107 S Moonesamy
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Cullen Jennings
- AW: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 N.Leymann
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Jay Daley
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Jim Fenton
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 John C Klensin
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Salz, Rich
- Re: Forced virtual IETF 109 as well as 107 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Forced virtual IETF 109 as well as 107 S Moonesamy
- Venue for post-IETF 107 Nomcom eligibility discus… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Venue for post-IETF 107 Nomcom eligibility di… Samuel Weiler
- Re: Venue for post-IETF 107 Nomcom eligibility di… Alissa Cooper
- Re: Venue for post-IETF 107 Nomcom eligibility di… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Barry Leiba
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Salz, Rich
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 John C Klensin
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 tom petch
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Lou Berger
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Loa Andersson
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Christian Hopps
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Salz, Rich
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 John C Klensin
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Bob Hinden
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Salz, Rich
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 John C Klensin
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Barry Leiba
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Michael Richardson
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Salz, Rich
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Michael StJohns
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Salz, Rich
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Pete Resnick
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Donald Eastlake
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Jared Mauch
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Stewart Bryant
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Pete Resnick
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Lars Eggert
- RE: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Scott Mansfield
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Salz, Rich
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Michael Richardson
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Barry Leiba
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Pete Resnick
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Keith Moore
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Nico Williams
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Pete Resnick
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Nico Williams
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Salz, Rich
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Keith Moore
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Alissa Cooper
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Yoav Nir
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Michael StJohns
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Richard Barnes
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Pete Resnick
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Pete Resnick
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Nico Williams
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Barry Leiba
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Nico Williams
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Salz, Rich
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Barry Leiba
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Robert Elz
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Barry Leiba
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Michael Richardson
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Barry Leiba
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Joel Halpern
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Salz, Rich
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Salz, Rich
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Keith Moore
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Nico Williams
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Pete Resnick
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Barry Leiba
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Barry Leiba
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Bob Hinden
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Pete Resnick
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Barry Leiba
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 John Levine
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Pete Resnick
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Nico Williams
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: NomCom eligibility & IETF 107 John C Klensin