Re: Do you really not care whether people accept your mail?

[Brandon Long <[e-mail]>]

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 8:35 AM, Nico Williams <[e-mail]>
wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 12:00:20PM +0100, Philip Homburg wrote:
> > >On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 3:38 AM, Philip Homburg <
> [e-mail]>
> > >wrote:
> > >> In my experience, essentially no mail gets lost if you leave out SPF,
> DKIM,
> > >> DMARC. The only exception is gmail that occasionally rejects e-mail.
> > >
> > >"no mail gets lost" != "gmail occasionally rejects my mail"
> >
> > What I meant to write is that when I take all e-mail targets that I send
> e-mail
> > to, leaving out gmail, then sending mail without SPF, DKIM, DMARC works
> just
> > fine.
> >
> > Gmail is an exception because it seems that gmail is broken if you
> deliver
> > mail without SPF, etc. over IPv6 to gmail. That's unique to gmail.
>
> The problem is twofold: a) gmail has a huge number of mailboxes, so if
> you can't deliver to them without SPF/DKIM/DMARC, then your mail truly
> is broken, b) they could be setting the rule, so that even if you don't
> mind (a), you soon will feel the pain.
>
> > So if your outgoing mail doesn't have SPF, etc. and you do have IPv6,
> then
> > you have to think about what to do with gmail.
>
> As a user, when I send email, I don't want to think about this sort of
> thing.  An admin has to think about this sort of thing, and it's looking
> a lot like email is nowhere near the relatively easy service to run that
> it was in the 90s.
>

Do you run spam filters on your mail server today? Do you run an open relay?
Does your mail client support html email?  How about MIME?

Yes, running a mail server today is not like it was 25 years ago.


> > >Do you imagine that you may be making different choices than others?
> >
> > Imagine that some will be making different chocies than me, yes.
>
> Balkanizing email doesn't sound very good to me.


Is it balkanizing email to require five minutes to set up an SPF record?
Not setting it up is a choice to be on the outside.

Imagine if instead they were refusing to add an IPv6 address to their mail
server, so they wouldn't ever be able to send to an IPv6 only MX.  Who is
making the choice to balkanize then?

Brandon