Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Documents (term)
Michael StJohns <mstjohns@comcast.net> Mon, 05 April 2021 23:31 UTC
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Subject: Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Documents (term)
To: ietf@ietf.org
References: <6.2.5.6.2.20210401013907.0b3b7fe8@elandnews.com> <89383942-204e-a94e-3350-42bfb4165ba0@comcast.net>
From: Michael StJohns <mstjohns@comcast.net>
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Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 19:31:11 -0400
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On 4/5/2021 7:11 PM, Michael StJohns wrote: > > For some reason I can't find the original announcement, so I'll just > do this bare. > > > Given the general language of RFC 2418, my best take is that _*it's > inappropriate for the IETF to charter a working group on this > topic*_. It's not a technical topic, and it does not fit the general > WG model. > > To my best recollection (which means I may have missed one), we've > never chartered a WG solely for the purpose of writing documents that > purport to modify the way the IETF does business. > *sigh* Ignore the above. Joel H reminded me of Poised, Poisson of the previous century and Newtrk of the previous decade. I'm sure there are others. > Such documents have usually come either as IESG / IAB > authored/sponsored BCPs. Indeed, BCP 95 was just such a document. > WGs have been (should be?) for technical activities related to > specifying how the Internet works. > > <minirant>Technical WGs at least have the possibility of achieving > consensus based on the analysis of tradeoffs of hard facts and good > analysis. A "WG" such as TERM may fail of achieving even WG > consensus, let alone community consensus (especially given the current > ongoing discussions) and there will be no fall back to fact analysis > possible. I can't see any way an appeal could be managed in those > circumstances and I strongly suggest we do not try to place this in > the WG model.</minirant> > > Since the proposed charter for Term will effect more than just the > standards process (e.g. it potentially effects all of the current and > future RFC streams), it would appear this should be handled either as > an IAB activity (either authored, or referred to a workshop), or > deferred until the RFCED group completes its work and can have this > assigned as a work item. > > My first preference is to do this as an IAB Workshop report with no > BCP tag and with as dispassionate an analysis and output language as > possible. E.g. explanatory language vs directive. > > Mike > >
- WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Document… S Moonesamy
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Lars Eggert
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Nick Hilliard
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Andrew G. Malis
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… S Moonesamy
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Michael StJohns
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Michael StJohns
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Lucy Lynch
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Adam Roach
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Lloyd W
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Adam Roach
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Michael StJohns
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… John C Klensin
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Carsten Bormann
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Nico Williams
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Jari Arkko
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Nico Williams
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Keith Moore
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Nico Williams
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Stewart Bryant
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Masataka Ohta
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Masataka Ohta
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Leif Johansson
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Sam Hartman
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Leif Johansson
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… John Scudder
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Nico Williams
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Nico Williams
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Nico Williams
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… John C Klensin
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… John C Klensin
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Jari Arkko
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Salz, Rich
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… John Levine
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Keith Moore
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… John C Klensin
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… tom petch
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Nico Williams
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… John C Klensin
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… John C Klensin
- Re: WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Docu… Lloyd W