Re: On the costs of old systems (was Re: Call for Community Feedback: Retiring IETF FTP Service)

Masataka Ohta <mohta@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> Sun, 29 November 2020 07:33 UTC

Return-Path: <mohta@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6325D3A130D for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 28 Nov 2020 23:33:14 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.899
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qL49hdo4_q7o for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 28 Nov 2020 23:33:13 -0800 (PST)
Received: from necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp (necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp [131.112.32.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C8D953A134A for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sat, 28 Nov 2020 23:33:02 -0800 (PST)
Received: (qmail 30658 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2020 07:12:49 -0000
Received: from necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (131.112.32.132) by necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 29 Nov 2020 07:12:49 -0000
Subject: Re: On the costs of old systems (was Re: Call for Community Feedback: Retiring IETF FTP Service)
To: ietf@ietf.org
References: <af6ab231024c478bbd28bbec0f9c69c9@cert.org> <d12d2e09-6840-0500-c14c-73d862f85c8e@network-heretics.com> <20201117203038.GA30358@gsp.org> <4ddae8d0-866d-9e16-a304-ac78099f725d@cs.tcd.ie> <20201126195910.GA20255@gsp.org> <20201126201924.ilysbjg4bdwhpoak@crankycanuck.ca> <36e56480-bf69-6e15-2c5b-852f2c86c4b7@network-heretics.com> <20201129045829.GA34187@kduck.mit.edu>
From: Masataka Ohta <mohta@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <6260a054-67b6-0049-88fc-14b339af89be@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp>
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2020 16:32:24 +0900
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.4.3
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <20201129045829.GA34187@kduck.mit.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp"; format="flowed"; delsp="yes"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/FjeFl6vxcVBSUuk3SqkBG8EIhDs>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2020 07:33:21 -0000

Benjamin Kaduk wrote:

> Given that this whole adventure started with the tools team asking
> Roman/the IESG to run a community consensus process,

The obvious solution to reduce our operational effort is to
deprecate the team.

> I'm happy to
> be proven wrong by better data, but would prefer to not be treating these
> individuals as mindless cogs in a machine.

Recognizing collective stupidity of a team is different from
insulting individuals consisting the team, though upper layer
people who improperly set up the team may be condemned.

						Masataka Ohta