Re: Fwd: Re: [Jmap] Fwd: Re: WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (jmap) - reducing configuration complexity
Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> Thu, 16 February 2017 15:20 UTC
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From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [Jmap] Fwd: Re: WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (jmap) - reducing configuration complexity
To: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>, Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com>
References: <3b955910-12d0-2c56-0dc2-30279f98aea5@isode.com> <19fabdd7-77c5-fc13-616e-26d39d2f23df@isode.com> <20170208142241.GB84460@mx4.yitter.info> <217b1d1b-adba-2ebb-30ca-600f8dc77246@isode.com> <32D2801528D191A01AD4D3B2@PSB> <2fa724eb-18ba-b818-6a01-a07db5a9a9a4@isode.com> <01QANBYPRC140005AQ@mauve.mrochek.com> <1162BF5A37921B1555FF29F9@PSB>
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Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 15:20:12 +0000
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John and Ned, On 12/02/2017 20:15, John C Klensin wrote: > --On Wednesday, February 8, 2017 12:39 -0800 Ned Freed > <ned.freed@mrochek.com> wrote: > [snip] >> (2) in particular creates additional requirements that need to >> be explicitly called out in the charter. In particular, it's >> imperative that (a) It be reasonable to implement >> JMAP->IMAP/SUBMIT proxies, even if that constrains JMAP in >> ways some folks do not like, (b) The list of IMAP extensions >> needed to properly implement JMAP be called out, and (c) The >> security considerations involved in operating such a proxy >> need to be described in detail. I updated Charter text to mention these. > Exactly. If one expects JMAP to be wildly successful, and > unless there is either a plausible plan to make all of those > IMAP clients go away (even if there are no new ones), I think > that list should include either its being reasonable to > implement and support IMAP/SUBMIT-> JMAP proxies or other > overlays or a charter requirement to discuss residual use cases > for IMAP. I'm particularly concerned about supporting > IMAP-native clients with a JMAP-native mailstore. > >>> 2). Both are supported by the same software (i.e. Cyrus and >>> Dovecot use case). I doubt that incremental cost of >>> configuring both is much higher than just configuring one of >>> them. >>> In either case configuring JMAP clients is a simple(r) >>> proposition: just distribute HTTP URI for a JMAP instance. >>>> and to support, also for a long time, the ability to convert >>>> between the two formats. >>> There are no 2 formats, both IMAP and JMAP operate on RFC >>> 5322 objects, so the rest of your argument is invalid. >> Agreed. I have to say I really don't understand the confusion >> surrounding this point. IMAP has bodystructure plus a couple >> of other formats for returning message data, and a means of >> creating new messages from pieces of other messages, none of >> which look remotely like MIME/RFC 5322, and nobody cares. >> >> This is effectively the same thing; why should anyone care >> here? > I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm concerned about what it > takes to create and maintain servers and mailstores that are > compatible with both IMAP and JMAP. If that means proxies, we > either need to address the question of IMAP proxies over JMAP > and JMAP mailstores as well as the JMAP over IMAP-compatible > ones or I'd like the charter is require a good explanation of > why that isn't necessary. That might be "IMAP-based systems > with JMAP overlays forever", but, the more people argue that > JMAP will take over (rapidly or otherwise), the less plausible > that position feels. I've done some prototyping of existing JMAP proposal and I am quite confident that underlying models are close enough that implementing one on top of another is doable. IMAP+QRESYNC extension require IMAP mailstores to store change sequence numbers, which is required feature in JMAP. Best Regards, Alexey
- Re: WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (jmap) Dave Crocker
- Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (… Adrien de Croy
- Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (… Dave Crocker
- Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (… Neil Jenkins
- Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (… Gren Elliot
- Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (… Randy Bush
- Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (… Dave Crocker
- Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (… Gren Elliot
- Fwd: Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access Proto… Gren Elliot
- Re: [Jmap] service discovery, was WG Review: JSON… John Levine
- Re: Fwd: Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access P… Dave Crocker
- Re: Fwd: Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access P… Randy Bush
- Re: Fwd: Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access P… John C Klensin
- Re: [Jmap] Fwd: Re: WG Review: JSON Mail Access P… Adrien de Croy
- Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (… Neil Jhaveri
- Re: Fwd: Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access P… Gren Elliot
- Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (… Joe Hildebrand
- Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (… Dave Crocker
- Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (… Neil Jenkins
- Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (… Yoav Nir
- Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (… Dave Cridland
- Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (… Alexey Melnikov
- Fwd: Re: [Jmap] Fwd: Re: WG Review: JSON Mail Acc… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: Fwd: Re: [Jmap] Fwd: Re: WG Review: JSON Mail… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: Fwd: Re: [Jmap] Fwd: Re: WG Review: JSON Mail… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: Fwd: Re: [Jmap] Fwd: Re: WG Review: JSON Mail… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Fwd: Re: [Jmap] Fwd: Re: WG Review: JSON Mail… John C Klensin
- Re: Fwd: Re: [Jmap] Fwd: Re: WG Review: JSON Mail… Dave Crocker
- Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (… Ted Lemon
- Re: Fwd: Re: [Jmap] Fwd: Re: WG Review: JSON Mail… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: Fwd: Re: [Jmap] Fwd: Re: WG Review: JSON Mail… Ted Hardie
- Re: WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (jmap) -… John Levine
- Re: Fwd: Re: [Jmap] Fwd: Re: WG Review: JSON Mail… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (… Pete Resnick
- Re: [Jmap] Fwd: Re: WG Review: JSON Mail Access P… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Jmap] Fwd: Re: WG Review: JSON Mail Access P… Dave Crocker
- Re: Fwd: Re: [Jmap] Fwd: Re: WG Review: JSON Mail… ned+ietf
- Re: Fwd: Re: [Jmap] Fwd: Re: WG Review: JSON Mail… John Levine
- Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Fwd: Re: [Jmap] Fwd: Re: WG Review: JSON Mail… John C Klensin
- Re: Fwd: Re: [Jmap] Fwd: Re: WG Review: JSON Mail… Dave Cridland
- Re: Fwd: Re: [Jmap] Fwd: Re: WG Review: JSON Mail… Dave Crocker
- Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (… Ted Lemon
- Re: Fwd: Re: [Jmap] Fwd: Re: WG Review: JSON Mail… John C Klensin
- Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (… John C Klensin
- Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (… Dave Cridland
- Re: Fwd: Re: [Jmap] Fwd: Re: WG Review: JSON Mail… Dave Cridland
- Re: [Jmap] WG Review: JSON Mail Access Protocol (… Ted Lemon
- Re: Fwd: Re: [Jmap] Fwd: Re: WG Review: JSON Mail… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: Fwd: Re: [Jmap] Fwd: Re: WG Review: JSON Mail… ned+ietf
- Re: Fwd: Re: [Jmap] Fwd: Re: WG Review: JSON Mail… John C Klensin