Re: "The IETF has difficulty solving complex problems" or alternatively Why IMS is a big fat ugly incomprehensiable protocol

"Spencer Dawkins" <spencer@mcsr-labs.org> Fri, 09 September 2005 18:55 UTC

Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EDo2Z-0005m2-4B; Fri, 09 Sep 2005 14:55:59 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EDo2X-0005lk-De for ietf@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 09 Sep 2005 14:55:57 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA22215 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:55:55 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net ([216.148.227.89] helo=rwcrmhc12.comcast.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EDo67-0002tK-Tt for ietf@ietf.org; Fri, 09 Sep 2005 14:59:43 -0400
Received: from s73602 (unknown[65.104.224.98]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <2005090918553901400e9mkoe>; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 18:55:39 +0000
Message-ID: <151701c5b570$052a25a0$0500a8c0@china.huawei.com>
From: Spencer Dawkins <spencer@mcsr-labs.org>
To: ietf@ietf.org
References: <20050804050502.GB6084@sbrim-wxp01> <42F89F9F.5070008@zurich.ibm.com><C5A01F62-A076-46C7-8C67-6568E752A1E7@nomadiclab.com> <4321D5E9.9010609@shockey.us>
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 13:55:15 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type="response"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: "The IETF has difficulty solving complex problems" or alternatively Why IMS is a big fat ugly incomprehensiable protocol
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: ietf-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: ietf-bounces@ietf.org

This was quite funny - both of you!

Of course, the first thing to do when you want to lose "complexity" is "Stop 
adding to the problem" (as in "Put down the fork and push away from the 
table...").

See you in Vancouver,

Spencer

From: "Richard Shockey" <richard@shockey.us>
To: "Pekka Nikander" <pekka.nikander@nomadiclab.com>
Cc: <ietf@ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: "The IETF has difficulty solving complex problems" or 
alternatively Why IMS is a big fat ugly incomprehensiable protocol


> Pekka Nikander wrote:
>
>> In a whimsical mood, I put up a web page that tries to
>> clarify the comments that I made about complexity during
>> the Paris IETF Thursday plenary.  So, for your bed time
>> enjoyment:
>>
>>   http://www.tml.tkk.fi/~pnr/FAT/
>
>
> Pekka this is a outstanding piece of work and I would suggest an 
> alternative thesis that fits your model.
>
> "Why IMS is similar to grotesque body fat --- the case for cranial 
> liposuction among IMS engineers"
>
> "Compulsive IMS ...how to reckgonise the problem and how to treat it"
>  "Bulimia networka ( aka IMS ) is defined as a period of uncontrolled 
> definition of network elements. The network designer places up to10,000 
> boxes in an archichectural design . Bulimia networka is commonly 
> associated with excessive attendance at industry conferences and standards 
> bodies ( Stockholm Syndrome ) followed by purging behaviors, i.e., service 
> provider bankruptcy, layoffs, etc.
>
> I'm sure we can expand on the model endlessly...
>
>>
>> --Pekka Nikander 


_______________________________________________
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf