Re: Time to kill layer 2
Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> Thu, 14 April 2016 15:22 UTC
Return-Path: <mellon@fugue.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 306F512E5C2 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 08:22:23 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.6
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EL4Nyrrxdpqj for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 08:22:13 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-lf0-x231.google.com (mail-lf0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F57C12E52E for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 08:22:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-lf0-x231.google.com with SMTP id g184so112940873lfb.3 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 08:22:04 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=yNRY/pkumXb11o1p8CjHHwM3vSOmlsP9NV6KwN5F4pU=; b=jEJLSlbefzbk/741d85S1XvrD1iKbOSnEHFZk/G8S4NVdWEtU1N7/mjGE3c16+nyIC NSe7y4Onj1Umzzmw/5OqVk+DRQ723x2JsIacoq3WXqxKe6kMQ2o1AIw1hzOhSLjABkAh SmMRIZdaMW8oCRjNnUGXpOFKku5Ly4i6jZA4VRvjEiZo3oq1dnOb7vhcDObe6OgNjYWP 7TAMbrL1JLSTq4tzza/pT5CoeOs3kAqvhDdRvMHTjPFTtUqRoeLXY77aiAZSE9RjrOlt WjwqezQC8aHVIZIQEu5nN4AHSW4jA381KLQrE3GKLhivnIS4qE2wVaTwWfBhK8h6+qPi pbpQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yNRY/pkumXb11o1p8CjHHwM3vSOmlsP9NV6KwN5F4pU=; b=Ivs8Gj7TZWn/wlJ8xwTFKaMPdCvh5cSgKthdMKfuLUFdAsdKRG/qrf778mHbGKx1oM JdP7NDooM9cF+vlX4ocQhCZzijhdLu7WCstZPGdlurjAGOzUXAT9+PM+VyDQ/yLn7XKU JUs9Qc8l8hRORmCEbiZE95GETIGE6Hf8qA+5vhOc1I8dDA1Pql7cPAdbDLAAGX9bQxxL 2sZNHCTQ5+GH+3uFXbEbk3Eq9XSiLr1IqxtVJ8C1Te9gd1ohOh995lbEpfCCT0JaY/Vh MCd/PXmSbJ9x5ttmJvBQL0m9lFzG0wTZ+RmiHyiOKttgIRTniP9+VTSJADeZ2N9XEnMg +gRg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FV7M72U0ySpXcWon7MRZC0wy89HBibDwjfqKUoPevBmOtJ3ITRT9ElNLNJKAoxUPeflB3+dt5lgBnNoPg==
X-Received: by 10.112.159.70 with SMTP id xa6mr6708140lbb.87.1460647323153; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 08:22:03 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.25.213.19 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 08:21:23 -0700 (PDT)
X-Originating-IP: [71.233.41.235]
In-Reply-To: <87shyol1jf.fsf@tops.chopps.org>
References: <CAMm+Lwg-HTYCv2pGt=SP2+Xjoko6GcJ73kVzqXC1LBTOMDKV_A@mail.gmail.com> <87shyol1jf.fsf@tops.chopps.org>
From: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 11:21:23 -0400
Message-ID: <CAPt1N1mRR+1iq9ueu=76WMd0K891ELvA-_YU1yar96kdcRa4CA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Time to kill layer 2
To: chopps@chopps.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11c28608d6cf5f05307374b4"
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/HETe8WB7TrVv578MRmgx7oguu5k>
Cc: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>, IETF Discussion Mailing List <ietf@ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 15:22:23 -0000
This problem is solved in a multicast way with mDNS and DNSSD. DNSSD is working on a way to make this work better in a multiple-subnet environment. I'm hoping to produce a solution for homenet that allows devices to register using unicast rather than multicast and does a better job of actually tracking what services are connected to the network. You can see a bit of this in the -00 of the homenet naming architecture document. On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 10:15 AM, <chopps@chopps.org> wrote: > > Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com> writes: > > > This morning I spent an hour debugging the network to print out two > > class projects that were due. Some points: > > > > 1) My ability to debug the network is better than 99% of the population > > 2) The interaction of Bonjour, DHCP and auto power saving is unfortunate > > 3) Things should still work after I have been away for a week > > 4) If vendors want to be selling all that IoT gear, they have to solve > > these issues. > > > > 5) I want someone to blame. Right now when the network doesn't work, I > > don't know who is the cause. I want one point of contact. Whoever is > > that point of contact will get most of my networking money. > > ... > > > One of the reasons that IP won against OSI was that it was simpler. > > Applications ran on top of the IP layer with only TCP inbetween. Of > > course these days we do have a Presentation layer, Web Services run on > > HTTP. But unlike the OSI presentation layer, ours does not introduce > > extra moving parts. > > The funny thing about mentioning OSI here is that it would probably be > very easy indeed to triage your network issue if your hosts were running > ES-IS, and your routers IS-IS. You could plug into IS-IS and see > everything. :) > > Thanks, > Chris. >
- Time to kill layer 2 Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Time to kill layer 2 Michael Richardson
- Re: Time to kill layer 2 chopps
- Re: Time to kill layer 2 Ted Lemon
- Re: Time to kill layer 2 Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Time to kill layer 2 Christopher Morrow
- Re: Time to kill layer 2 Charlie Perkins
- Re: Time to kill layer 2 Ted Lemon
- Re: Time to kill layer 2 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Time to kill layer 2 Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Time to kill layer 2 Dimitri Staessens
- Re: Time to kill layer 2 Ted Lemon
- Re: Time to kill layer 2 Carlos M. Martinez
- RE: Time to kill layer 2 Chaitanya D
- Re: Time to kill layer 2 Dimitri Staessens
- Re: Time to kill layer 2 Dimitri Staessens
- Re: Time to kill layer 2 Time Warner Cable
- Re: Time to kill layer 2 Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Time to kill layer 2 Ted Lemon
- Re: Time to kill layer 2 Phillip Hallam-Baker